Author Topic: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing  (Read 429 times)

Offline vile8r

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 12:50:50 AM »
I agree, small towns, especially what you call Prairie small towns, get a bad rap. I won't got into it, not now, but I know that most people in those small communities are far more accepting than people in big cities. One reason, there are just so many more chances to run into rotten people in the big cities. 

Yes we do! I grew up around small Canadian prairie towns and actually still live on the prairies. Some of the tropes however, aren't that far off, LOL! But yes, overall, I DO find people not as unaccepting as people in larger centres.   I, myself, like the redneck yokel trope, and I've used it a fair bit in stories. But I'm always looking more at the Southern type of redneck.  The ones from the Deep South of the US and other rural areas.  It is certainly a stereotype, and sometimes not a very flattering one, and I don't mean to paint all Southerners with that brush. I know there are some very good people from those areas too, and not all are beer-swilling tobacco-chewing unsophisticated oafs.

But unfortunately, a lot of them don't do themselves any favors when you see the idiot things they do and say in the media. i.e, the Florida Man stories you see in the news. It unfairly perpetuates an image that people in this part of the world are a bunch of simpleton idiots. That's not accurate of course, but like I say, for some of these people, they are their own worst enemies.
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Offline Petite99S

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 06:04:35 AM »
Ugh....   I understand that...  I know I've put my foot in my mouth more than a couple of times at work recently...  we are our worst enemy.  Coincidently, at a V-coffee Zoom meeting, a bunch of people at work were chatting about the Florida man reddit - hadn't realized it was a thing...

Offline LtBroccoli

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2020, 11:01:51 PM »
Ugh....   I understand that...  I know I've put my foot in my mouth more than a couple of times at work recently...  we are our worst enemy.  Coincidently, at a V-coffee Zoom meeting, a bunch of people at work were chatting about the Florida man reddit - hadn't realized it was a thing...

Florida Man is like some crazy super hero.  By state law, every crime that gets reported to the police has to be mentioned in the paper.  Not just the big ones like murder or attempted regicide, but the little and crazy ones.  That's how you end up with things like "Florida Man rides lawnmower naked on interstate" or "Florida Man throws alligator through Wendy's Drive Thru window."  I want to write a story about how Florida Man is actually some kind of superhero who does these things in the process of stopping his villains.  He needed to ride the lawnmower on the interstate naked because Jaxson Ville threw acid at him and clothes melted, and being that he was just at the Lawnmower Races, he hopped on the best riding mower he could find.  But the cops stopped Florida Man after he caught Jaxson Ville.  Being a vigilante has it's costs.

Going a little bit back on topic, I found that the city folk are more accepting of different people.  Part of the reason is that they have to interact with everyone.  On a typical day, I could run into a thousand people of every shape, size, color, and creed.  My hometown of 30,000 had 'the black family', the 'Jewish families', and the 'Asians'.  And a lot of racist terms for them.  All of the racist terms I've used in my stories, I learned growing up in WhiteyWhiteville.  Back then it was a rare occasion to see black person or an immigrant, or a gay person.  Living in the city I had a roommate that was all three.

I grew up in a small town, moved to even smaller towns, and didn't feel welcome anywhere until I moved to the city in my 20's.  If you were even slightly different the small town people just didn't like you.  Or if you had the wrong friends or went to the wrong church, or didn't laugh at the right jokes, there was something wrong with you.  It could be that I was around a bunch of assholes and also had the social skills of reading people until my twenties that would rate just slightly below a toaster, but even later in life I've never felt comfortable in a small town.  Especially the last time I went back to my hometown.  The last four trips there I had complete white strangers feel comfortable enough around my white ass to drop the n-word, hard r, multiple times.

I think part of the bad rap for cities is that people conflate curtness for rudeness and ambivalence for disgust.  There's an old joke I heard a while back:
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and no one sees you, you're in the country.
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and your neighbor sees you and complains or calls the cops, you're in the suburbs.
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and your neighbor sees you and doesn't give a shit, you're in the city.
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Offline bobbyjoecrossdresser

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2020, 09:43:50 AM »
I find it hard to believe you write anything soft or romantic, professionally or otherwise. It must be work for you to write those stories as a ghostwriter, when your nature, nurture, and disposition aren't really conducive to romance. The only people I know you have been romantic or tender with are you adoptive father and Jo. :) Hard licks for those that displease you, tough love, and an occasional, "Get the hell out of my life," are the things that I remember about you most.

Don't get me wrong, I love you, terribly love you. But you always scared the shit out of me when I displeased you. It seemed to be a hobby of mine when I lived with you guys, displeasing you I mean.

By the way, my house is always clean now, and so am I, clean and sober. You did that, you got me off drugs, you made me a better person. You threw me out of the house when I slipped up and I left Oklahoma. I got clean, again, then I got clean another time. I am still sober and plan to say so.

Tell Jo I love her. And I'll say it another time, I love you.

As to stereotypes, I have read your work, you are as guilty as anyone of using stereotypes. You do it well. You write the soft fem or sissy quite well, and it is so stereotypical that all these boys want to be girls. With that said, I like those stories a lot and I'm pretty stereotypical myself.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:06:56 AM by bobbyjoecrossdresser »
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2020, 11:26:54 AM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?
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Offline LtBroccoli

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2020, 03:35:54 PM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?

When I'm writing dialog, I like to have conversations with my characters.  Not always out loud, but the more the better.  I get some weird looks if I'm near anyone else, but I'm used to that. :)

Everyone has a different background.  What is the background of your characters?  What is their education, their environment, their curiosity, their accent, their heritage, their personalities, their ability to adapt?  Think about what they're trying to say or do before they do it.  That last part might not make sense, but think of it like this...

Larry, Joe, Sam, and Tasha are all planning a surprise birthday party for Mitch.  Larry is an older white guy from the country with no formal education.  Joe is a middle-aged accountant from Kansas City.  Sam is a young man from India.  Tasha is a young woman from the roughest of projects but knows how to 'whiten it up' when needed.  Mitch acts like a goofy frat bro but is really a deep-in-the-closet anime nerd.  If I were given this scene, I'd write out what I want to accomplish, write out some basic dialog that meets the story, then go back and ask how much do I have to change to make it feel right?  Do I have to make Larry drawl every sentence or say some crazy country slang in every response?  No.  But could I slip one in here and there?  Sure.  Does it make sense for Joe to say Ain't several times?  No.  But does he have to use polysyllabic words in every sentence?  No.  Does Sam need to sound like Apu?  Probably not, but he could slip in a "kindly do the needful" or "I have a doubt" when he has a question.  Tasha doesn't need to go all hood rat every sentence, but maybe an "aww, hell nah" once or twice.

After going through this process once or twice, I'll come up with the character's voices.  These voices belong to the characters.

Another thing that helps me, especially if I'm just introducing the character, is picture someone as them.  I have a few friends that I've used in my stories as a template until that character took on a life of their own.  Once that happened, I didn't have trouble coming up with their voices.
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Offline 90lbsofdynamite

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2020, 04:13:01 PM »
It's alright to use incomplete sentences and poor grammar for those that are uneducated,  no matter the race. You shouldn't try to use ghetto speak or ebonics unless you have actuality heard it used. I wouldn't trust the tv on this. On the incomplete sentances, most of us use a short hand, like Joey from Friends, "How you doing?" which is wrong, it's how are you doing? But most people say How you doing. If you are going to try perfect accents you'll need to do a lot of study.

My father has an unpublished Horror story set in Maine, He has several characters that speak similar to this “Ayuh, as I live and breathe, Willie boy, is that you?” ... “Can’t pahk yah cah on the dock pally, gots to pahk yah cah in the pahking lot, at’s what it’s tharh foh. Now, let me stress this, can’t pahk on the dock, ayah, even if yah is a Newsome!” Handing the young man, the ticket he added, “Welcome back, Willie boy taint seen yah around in a wicked long time.” ... and cockney man who speaks with the right accent, “I’m alone me parents were in the ‘ouse, and I’m sure they were killed.” ... “Only ‘eathens drink coffee,”  ... 

but it isn't necessary, useing a few slang phrases and stating they have a thick this or that accent is fine.
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2020, 05:06:55 PM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?

When I'm writing dialog, I like to have conversations with my characters.  Not always out loud, but the more the better.  I get some weird looks if I'm near anyone else, but I'm used to that. :)

Everyone has a different background.  What is the background of your characters?  What is their education, their environment, their curiosity, their accent, their heritage, their personalities, their ability to adapt?  Think about what they're trying to say or do before they do it.  That last part might not make sense, but think of it like this...

Larry, Joe, Sam, and Tasha are all planning a surprise birthday party for Mitch.  Larry is an older white guy from the country with no formal education.  Joe is a middle-aged accountant from Kansas City.  Sam is a young man from India.  Tasha is a young woman from the roughest of projects but knows how to 'whiten it up' when needed.  Mitch acts like a goofy frat bro but is really a deep-in-the-closet anime nerd.  If I were given this scene, I'd write out what I want to accomplish, write out some basic dialog that meets the story, then go back and ask how much do I have to change to make it feel right?  Do I have to make Larry drawl every sentence or say some crazy country slang in every response?  No.  But could I slip one in here and there?  Sure.  Does it make sense for Joe to say Ain't several times?  No.  But does he have to use polysyllabic words in every sentence?  No.  Does Sam need to sound like Apu?  Probably not, but he could slip in a "kindly do the needful" or "I have a doubt" when he has a question.  Tasha doesn't need to go all hood rat every sentence, but maybe an "aww, hell nah" once or twice.

After going through this process once or twice, I'll come up with the character's voices.  These voices belong to the characters.

Another thing that helps me, especially if I'm just introducing the character, is picture someone as them.  I have a few friends that I've used in my stories as a template until that character took on a life of their own.  Once that happened, I didn't have trouble coming up with their voices.

Thank you, that is more useful information about dialogue than I've found on my own!

I really appreciate your input.
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2020, 05:11:13 PM »
It's alright to use incomplete sentences and poor grammar for those that are uneducated,  no matter the race. You shouldn't try to use ghetto speak or ebonics unless you have actuality heard it used. I wouldn't trust the tv on this. On the incomplete sentances, most of us use a short hand, like Joey from Friends, "How you doing?" which is wrong, it's how are you doing? But most people say How you doing. If you are going to try perfect accents you'll need to do a lot of study.

My father has an unpublished Horror story set in Maine, He has several characters that speak similar to this “Ayuh, as I live and breathe, Willie boy, is that you?” ... “Can’t pahk yah cah on the dock pally, gots to pahk yah cah in the pahking lot, at’s what it’s tharh foh. Now, let me stress this, can’t pahk on the dock, ayah, even if yah is a Newsome!” Handing the young man, the ticket he added, “Welcome back, Willie boy taint seen yah around in a wicked long time.” ... and cockney man who speaks with the right accent, “I’m alone me parents were in the ‘ouse, and I’m sure they were killed.” ... “Only ‘eathens drink coffee,”  ... 

but it isn't necessary, useing a few slang phrases and stating they have a thick this or that accent is fine.


I totally get what you're saying. Overdoing hard to read accents makes it a pain for the reader, which is what I am trying to avoid. More work on developing and describing my character will let the reader figure it our on their own.

Thanks! I've gotten some great advice here today  ::):
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