Author Topic: The innaugural post, and air embolisms  (Read 699 times)

Offline SoftGameHunter

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The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« on: November 22, 2017, 01:14:22 AM »
Hi all.

I decided to be proactive and initiate a new board category dedicated to safety and health issues in BDSM and other kinky play. It seems like an important issue, and I'm particularly motivated after stumbling upon a new way to potentially kill your partner.

It started with a story contest on another board (RC for anyone who cares), in which I whipped off a depraved tale of abuse and humiliation involving sticking a snorkel up a tied girl's pussy and forcibly blowing first air and then later hot water through it, causing said air and water to come rushing out the only way they could, around the tight outside of the snorkel and making presumably the queefing sounds to end all queefing sounds, and I'm guessing some more than odd sensations.

So all was good until someone pointed out that blowing air into the vagina can, especially in cases where there has been some tearing or internal injury (most often a result of pregnancy), cause an air bubble to pass the membrane barrier and enter the bloodstream where it can cause rapid death. This is rare, but when I looked it up I realized that I'd found a way to dramatically increase the odds of death. 1: My method doesn't just blow air in from outside but gives it a tunnel all the way to the cervix with a good seal around it, ensuring that the air pressures involved will be much higher. 2: My method, by stuffing a likely cheap plastic snorkel in there increase the odds of minor tearing or injury, exactly the sort that increases the danger.

Long story short, I pulled the story from the site, and don't plan to repost it. It's one thing to write stories with things that are obviously risky if done wrong, like electrical play. Readers know this could be hazardous, and that is the point. But what I came up with was a quick and easy way to risk your partner's life without even knowing it. When I told my wife/slave about this story and the aftermath, her biologist brain considered it for a moment and then said 'No! Don't ever do that!' And here I was planning to surprise her with it at some future time when I had her tied and helpless.

So, that's a lot of exposition for a safety board post, but it's also indicative of exactly the sort of thing we should work to avoid - those innocent seeming practices that are far riskier than they might seem at first glance.
The rumors about me are scurrilous, depraved rantings of a sick mind, and I categorically deny any sense of falsehood attributed to them.

Psiberzerker
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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 07:15:15 AM »
Okay, no.  Sorry, but the membrane, and blood don't work that way.  You'd have to overcome Blood Pressure with your mouth/lungs to force air into the bloodstream against it, because gasses are compressible, liquids like blood aren't.  Rediculously unlikely, not to mention what you're talking about is Torture.  If you wanted to cause an embolism, you'd pretty much have to inject directly into the bloodstream, or use something with higher pressure and a better seal.  Like an air compressor in his or her urethra, or forced down their trachea to overinflate the lungs.  Which isn't to say go ahead and try your snorkel idea, again that's torture that could permanently damage the sex organs, but it should be pretty safe with latex surgical tubing.  

Caveat:  I'm not a medical doctor, I have my EMT, but I am a Robotics technician.  That includes Hydraulics, and Pneumatics.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:18:17 AM by Psiberzerker »

Offline SoftGameHunter

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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2017, 10:54:55 PM »
Okay, yes, not sorry, and please don't let your need to pontificate spoil a public service message.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11453096

http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=1967&issue=30010&article=00021&type=Citation

https://www.healthline.com/health/air-embolism#causes2

Basically a google (or better yet, a Google Scholar) search reveals that this condition can and does occur. It is probably correct, though, that latex surgical tubing would be safer than a plastic snorkel found in outdoor pool supplies at Sears.
The rumors about me are scurrilous, depraved rantings of a sick mind, and I categorically deny any sense of falsehood attributed to them.

Psiberzerker
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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 06:20:09 AM »
I know Embolism does occur, my mom is a Nurse, and I have an EMT.  I'm saying your lungs don't have enough pressure, and a snorkel pipe in the configuration you describe doesn't have a good enough seal, and I don't have a "Need to pontificate."  I have a degree in Hydraulics, and Pneumatics.  You can't blow a gas into a liquid against pressure without higher pressure, and a good seal.  Something is going to give first, either the seal, or more likely the gas, before you cause embolysis. Boyle's Law.

I do have a need for PSA to get their facts straight on a "University" site.  So let me quantify my opinion (Again)  I have serious doubts that you have enough lung pressure, nor that a snorkel tube in the naughty bits has a strong enough seal.  However, it still sounds like a bad idea.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 06:41:16 AM by Psiberzerker »

Psiberzerker
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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 06:36:10 AM »
One similar way it would be possible to cause them would be using a Bottle.  The standard "Fucking" action can cause enough pressure, and also the partial vacuum caused on the reverse stroke has proven to cause bleeding.  However, the tapered shape of the bottlneck gets wider as it goes deeper.  Just like the "Nipple" on a hydraulic connection.  So, you can briefly get a seal that's stronger than the air seal. 

I guess the PSA seal is be careful using bottles.  It's not as likely if you're gentle, but the harder and faster you fuck with them, the more likely to cause damage with them.  This is something that's sent people to the ER on multiple occasions.

Offline SoftGameHunter

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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 03:28:59 PM »
Does your degree teach you to read scientific papers? This outcome, however rare, does and has already happened with less pressure than the scenario I described. So your explanations on why it can't just fail.
The rumors about me are scurrilous, depraved rantings of a sick mind, and I categorically deny any sense of falsehood attributed to them.

Psiberzerker
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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 03:35:56 PM »
In the Green Journal cited case, it doesn't say what he blew in there with.  I can only assume he used his mouth without a tube.  That would be the SEAL I mentioned.  It's a system, I can't troubleshoot without all the factors.  I'm saying you would probably need more Lung Pressure, or a better Seal.  You have 2 possible forms of release to consider, before you get higher than blood pressures (However temporary.)

Degrees, plural.  Emergency Medical Technician (And Phlobotomy, 1 year, and 1 semester certification from a community college) and Industrial Automation and Robotics.  A 4 year degree that includes the practical Physics of Hydraulics, and Pneumatics.  Again, not having to try this, my unprofessional opinion is you wouldn't have a good enough seal to do it with lung/mouth power, but I wouldn't advise trying it.  (Without sufficient release from a loose seal, and something that's not going to cause internal hemorhaging.)

Can we discuss these things, or do you just rule that the comment you got before on a different forum is the official Opinion?  I Qualified, and Quantified mine.  I'm trying to explain multiple ways it can (Probably) be done more safely.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 03:47:26 PM by Psiberzerker »

Offline Neighbor

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Re: The innaugural post, and air embolisms
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2020, 07:05:00 AM »
... 4 year degree that includes the practical Physics of Hydraulics, and Pneumatics...

Same here.

You can take a straw and blow bubbles into a glass of water. The "air pressure" necessary to "blow a bubble" is affected by the displacement weight of the water (in this case negligible), and by the elasticity of the container (in this case, the upper boundary of the water is the atmosphere itself, again negligible, AS WELL AS THE COMPRESSIBILITY OF THE LIQUID, MENTIONED BY Psiberzerker, compressibility of BLOOD being practically the same as water - very small).

Blowing air into a "meatbag" would be quite EASY to do by way of pressure generated by air expelled from the lungs, whether blowing into an inserted hypodermic needle, or into a body cavity containing lesions.

Softgamehunter pointed out reports of fatal accidents caused by a person blowing into the vigina. (His first example was an embolism caused by the pneumatic action of inserting a "rough-surfaced" carrot into the vagina)

Familiar with the theorums of Torricelli or Bernoulli... The reason that "hydraulics and pneumatics" does not apply here, is that THOSE assume rigid (inelastic) containment, in a closed system. The body has ELASTIC membranes, and it is THAT that our lungs push against, when trying to "blow" air into the blood stream.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 09:06:21 AM by Neighbor »