[technodivinitas]

Joker's Humiliation thread over in Art Appreciation brought this subject to mind, and I thought I'd have my little say, and ask what alla y'all think on the subject...

I've always been baffled by images of what you might call "shameless whores" subjected to humiliation play, and grinning like idiots.  It just leaves me with a puzzled expression, and wondering what's the point?  If you scribble cocks and filthy names all over her, drown her in a shower of cum, smear her with mud, food, filth... and she's grinning and giggling all the while, clearly she's not ashamed in the least. You have failed to shame her, haven't you? YOU might think she is debased, but if SHE doesn't think so, then what is the point?  If you slap piggie ears snout, and corkscrew tail on her, and tell her to wallow in filth, and she, smilingly, obliges, with an enthusiastic OINK! ~tee hee~ OINK OINK~ Then aren't you pretty much just engaging in basic animal roleplay, not humiliation?

[SoftGameHunter]

Joker's Humiliation thread over in Art Appreciation brought this subject to mind, and I thought I'd have my little say, and ask what alla y'all think on the subject...

I've always been baffled by images of what you might call "shameless whores" subjected to humiliation play, and grinning like idiots.  It just leaves me with a puzzled expression, and wondering what's the point?  If you scribble cocks and filthy names all over her, drown her in a shower of cum, smear her with mud, food, filth... and she's grinning and giggling all the while, clearly she's not ashamed in the least. You have failed to shame her, haven't you? YOU might think she is debased, but if SHE doesn't think so, then what is the point?  If you slap piggie ears snout, and corkscrew tail on her, and tell her to wallow in filthy, and she, smilingly, obliges, with an enthusiastic OINK! ~tee hee~ OINK OINK~ Then aren't you pretty much just engaging in basic animal roleplay, not humiliation?

You've got to call this stuff something. It doesn't change just because a particular woman happens to love it. Just like rape fantasy is still rape fantasy even if both parties are willing and happy. There's no actual rape, just like there's no actual humiliation in the case you're describing.

For me, pictures are best when the victim either 1. hates it (or convincingly pretends to) or 2. obviously loves it. When I find a picture of a chick smiling broadly at her predicament, I'm likely to keep it because goddamit such women are just awesome. It's the ones that 3. are bored and watching the clock that are a real turn off.

[technodivinitas]

You've got to call this stuff something. It doesn't change just because a particular woman happens to love it. Just like rape fantasy is still rape fantasy even if both parties are willing and happy. There's no actual rape, just like there's no actual humiliation in the case you're describing.

For me, pictures are best when the victim either 1. hates it (or convincingly pretends to) or 2. obviously loves it. When I find a picture of a chick smiling broadly at her predicament, I'm likely to keep it because goddamit such women are just awesome. It's the ones that 3. are bored and watching the clock that are a real turn off.

I think for me it's the roleplay aspect, or lack thereof. Yes, we all know we're enjoying it, but in my mind, the grinning shameless girl might as well be staring at the clock. She seems to be missing the point of the scenario, as far as I can see. I suppose it's akin to the divide between painslut masochists, and emotional masochists who HATE the pain, but crave the suffering of it. I am generally the latter of these two, though I have certainly indulged in the fine art of trance-flogging, and can see where the painslut is coming from. Less so with the shameless girl. I don't get it. If being humiliated doesn't make her feel debased, then what is she actually getting out of the experience at all? 

[SoftGameHunter]

You've got to call this stuff something. It doesn't change just because a particular woman happens to love it. Just like rape fantasy is still rape fantasy even if both parties are willing and happy. There's no actual rape, just like there's no actual humiliation in the case you're describing.

For me, pictures are best when the victim either 1. hates it (or convincingly pretends to) or 2. obviously loves it. When I find a picture of a chick smiling broadly at her predicament, I'm likely to keep it because goddamit such women are just awesome. It's the ones that 3. are bored and watching the clock that are a real turn off.

I think for me it's the roleplay aspect, or lack thereof. Yes, we all know we're enjoying it, but in my mind, the grinning shameless girl might as well be staring at the clock. She seems to be missing the point of the scenario, as far as I can see. I suppose it's akin to the divide between painslut masochists, and emotional masochists who HATE the pain, but crave the suffering of it. I am generally the latter of these two, though I have certainly indulged in the fine art of trance-flogging, and can see where the painslut is coming from. Less so with the shameless girl. I don't get it. If being humiliated doesn't make her feel debased, then what is she actually getting out of the experience at all? 

It's probably just a more extreme case of having nude pics taken at all. Most people don't pose for naked pics online, or in magazines/books/etc. It's considered embarrassing to be seen naked by a general group of people in everyday settings. But a fair number of people pose happily for the camera, even if they don't flash the neighbors. They like it. I guess the same is true for these extreme scenarios. It's a form of exhibitionism to show off with body writing, or covered in gooey things, or wearing silly props. It's a way of really loudly saying 'Hey look at me, right here at me, here I am, and I'm extra kinky!' I don't think they might as well be staring at the clock. I think they're having too much fun. I happen to like that, but this is still a kink, like any other, and will have some fans and some non-fans.

[SoftGameHunter]

And we might also consider that the girl is being "forced" to smile to add to the humiliation.

[technodivinitas]

And we might also consider that the girl is being "forced" to smile to add to the humiliation.

  Well we might... if like me, her enthusiastic grin is too disturbing. But I think most of us can tell the difference between a "Fuck you you bastard" smile, and a "WHEEEEEEEEEEEE! MORE MORE DADDY!" smile. *LOL* 

[SoftGameHunter]

And we might also consider that the girl is being "forced" to smile to add to the humiliation.

  Well we might... if like me, her enthusiastic grin is too disturbing. But I think most of us can tell the difference between a "Fuck you you bastard" smile, and a "WHEEEEEEEEEEEE! MORE MORE DADDY!" smile. *LOL* 

Yeah, but I wanted to cover all bases. Sometimes they can be enigmatic. But as a fan of either one, I'll take the forced grin or the genuine real thing. Eye rolling, boredom, and dull stares I can all do without.

[IrishGirl2.0]

As someone who likes pain, you have to play the role, although in my case it's pretty easy not to "grin like an idiot" when someone is hurting you.

But in the cases I have done the humiliation game smiling goes with what the play dictates, if he wants me to then I smile. But you really can't fault any one for it, the point isn't to make the other person miserable it's to give them what they want, isn't that what sex is about, pleasing your partner and having either fun or a nice emotional release?

If your smiling or exhausted than clearly they are doing something right, or if, like me, she's in tears than something has been done right.

Anyway you look at it, so long as you and your partner had a workout and aren't glaring at each other, are at least satisfied than something was done right

[AnimalKing]

The flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that the abuser considers the reaction of the abused. Objectification and humiliation is a paradox. An object doesn't feel anything, including humiliation or enjoyment. To induce 'feeling' is to acknowledge agency, the humanity of the victim and victimizer equally. Only truly non-consensual interaction could ever possibly come close to something that approaches actual humiliation, but even then the objectification of the victim is about inducing 'feeling'. Death being the pinnacle of objectification, anything less than murder will always be a roleplay - including actual rape.