[SoftGameHunter]

I just saw a post earlier today, by pinkwarkitten14, of the kajira's prayer. It got me to thinking, how many of us have read some or all of the GOR books that terms like kajira come from? They're not easy to find these days. I think a lot of bookstores are refusing to stock them.

I heard about the John Norman books some years back from USENET groups and started reading them when I was 20. They started out fairly mild (the first one was 1968, I think), but they quickly ramped up the slavery and submission of women on a vast scale (along with denigration of the "free" women, who were always shown as unhappy, spiteful harpies). And boy did those books give some good wank material. I even thought Norman was pretty good at physical descriptions and world building, all things considered. Not so good at dialog, but he used his skills as a professor of philosophy to make male posturing and machismo sound like a deep and considered philosophy of living. And he was terrible at linguistics. I still remember the one occasion in the first twelve or so books (as far as I got) where he included a sample of the Gorean language that was supposed to have all the very best features found in English, Italian, German, Russian, French etc. "Lo Rask. Rarius. Civititis Trevus", "I am Rask, a warrior from the city Treve". This super language apparently contains only nouns and pronouns. I guess he was being incognito as a professor (his real name is John Lange) and didn't dare ask any linguistics professors for help.

So what memories and tributes does anyone else have for Gor books? I consider them a fun but kind of laughable blast from my past. They got repetitive fast, so I stopped seeking them out after around number 12. And actually I found and read his independent book Time Slave before any Gor stories, and it was probably better than any of them (despite him being afraid to consult an anthropology professor for help).

Ah, jolly times indeed.

[technodivinitas]

So what memories and tributes does anyone else have for Gor books? I consider them a fun but kind of laughable blast from my past. They got repetitive fast, so I stopped seeking them out after around number 12. And actually I found and read his independent book Time Slave before any Gor stories, and it was probably better than any of them (despite him being afraid to consult an anthropology professor for help).

Ah, jolly times indeed.

I've only actually read one all the way through. I don't recall now whether it was Slavegirl of Gor, or Dancer of Gor. Dancer, i think.  It was a frustrating experience for me. The thoughts behind the words were intriguing, but the writing itself was so clumsy and redundant, like maybe he was trying to mimick pulp fiction authors unflatteringly or something. But under that clunky verbal skin there were all these notions of philosophy and culture and ritualism. Then there's the science fiction aspects of the insectoid God Kings. I would love to see it handled by someone with a better set of writing skills.

[SoftGameHunter]

Hey, and I thought this thread was in the forum of invisibility.

That pretty much sums it up. Norman had plenty to present, but the delivery was just uninspiring in the end.

So what memories and tributes does anyone else have for Gor books? I consider them a fun but kind of laughable blast from my past. They got repetitive fast, so I stopped seeking them out after around number 12. And actually I found and read his independent book Time Slave before any Gor stories, and it was probably better than any of them (despite him being afraid to consult an anthropology professor for help).

Ah, jolly times indeed.

I've only actually read one all the way through. I don't recall now whether it was Slavegirl of Gor, or Dancer of Gor. Dancer, i think.  It was a frustrating experience for me. The thoughts behind the words were intriguing, but the writing itself was so clumsy and redundant, like maybe he was trying to mimick pulp fiction authors unflatteringly or something. But under that clunky verbal skin there were all these notions of philosophy and culture and ritualism. Then there's the science fiction aspects of the insectoid God Kings. I would love to see it handled by someone with a better set of writing skills.

Add Captive of Gor (#7), and you have the 3 Gor books that are unreadable.

I liked the ones that focused on adventure and sword play, with girls being slaves as just a happy side.  I never really thought about the writing being clumsy, but I will say the series had a huge impact on me when I read them as a young teen.  John Norman had the ability early on to tell a great story.  My favorites were in numerical order 4, 5, 6, 9, 12 with high marks also for 1, 2, 3 and 8.  I have read some of these many times including recently.  Since his books ran well into the 20's, you can see what I mean about 'ability early on to tell a great story'.

[SoftGameHunter]

My wife just called. She's still at her family's home, and was out doing estate sales when she came across #11 Slave Girl of Gor. She thought that Gor was the series I once told her about so she bought it for fifty cents figuring it would be good for a chuckle even if she had the wrong series. I think this was one of the last ones I actually read, years ago, and probably one of the most ridiculous. It does focus entirely on a captured Earth woman, so there was, I think, somewhat less swordplay and more pages-long philosophy of why women crave slavery. (Of course, at RU that should elicit a 'yeah, so?' from our ladies.  )

I recapped the background of the Gor series and suggested she go ahead and read it for herself. Being the speed reader of the household (I'm super envious), she'll probably finish in a single afternoon. Sometime soon I expect us to share a good chuckle.

 
I bought about half a dozen of them, not sequential, and made it through 2 of them.  I was looking for the erotic side, and although it was present, the endless redundancy and long descriptions of inconsequential things lost my attention fast.  I think the best part was the suggestive promise of the covers.

[SoftGameHunter]

Most likely they were artworks by Boris Valejo, one of the finest in erotic swords and sorcery art.

[tierez]

I am kind of particular about what I read. I tried my best to get through GOR.

But I just couldn't do it.

I like the rape, submission and male dominance themes. A friend even told me about it and what it had in it.

But there was no grammar and the chapters were written like a 12 year old.

Don't get me wrong, I know its popular and a lot like it. Fine. But in and of itself, not for me.

I have heard a few quotes from it I like.

"Men have sex, women are sex."

 
I think it was my dissatisfaction with the gap between expectation and what I found that drove my style to producing what was not in the Gor books.  All of this at the expense of the females in my stories, to the degree that I am pressed to find anything in my production that fits outside the "snuff" page.

[grendel]

At the time ... young and in college ... MANY years ago ... I liked 1 thru 5 ... particularly five ... Raiders I think ... tho Nomads  (#4??) with the slave capturing scene with the bolas was pretty awesome.  Anyway I never liked anything after Raiders ... seemed repetitive and lame.  Heh ... probably couldn't get through number one today ... good writing has left me with no patience for bull shit.

If someone is interested I found a article on Vice France about women who chose to live as Kajira (sex slaves of Gor) in real life (I don't know if I can post the link to the article) and I can translate it to you.   

This is a translation of an article from "Vice France" which named "Avec les « kajirae », ces esclaves sexuelles sorties tout droit d'une saga SF" I found it pretty interesting cause it gives the floor to submissive women. It helped me a lot to create psychological background of female characters :

"In 1966, John Norman, a science fiction writer and professor of philosophy, published the first volume of his series Gor, also called "Gorean saga".

The novels are based on a mixture of philosophy, science fiction and eroticism, and are known in sci-fi circles for their sexual politics, because in the Gor universe, there is a dynamic master / slave. Women - or "kajirae" - are subject to the physical and sexual brutality of their masters (usually men) and learn to love it. This misogyny-BDSM is presented as the "natural order" of things.

Norman's books have been widely criticized for being pornographic, but they have also pushed some readers to adopt a "Gorean" way of life. Because yes, there are followers, and even Gorean couples, who seem to flourish in master / kajira relationships, 24/7, in and out of the room.

To find out more, we interviewed self-styled kajirae. Why did they decide to become sex slaves and lead a life inspired by fantasy novels?

Vivienne, 28, customer service manager

VICE: Since when are you a kajira?

Vivienne: For eleven years. I play Second Life and I had been sold at a slave auction to a Gorean master. He asked me if I had already explored his way of life, but I had no idea what it was. I immersed myself in the books and brought them to my BDSM master. It started from there.

What do you like about the Gorean way of life?

The first book I read was "Slave Girl of Gor". The relationship between the master and the slave immediately attracted me. I was dying to live the same thing. I understood that BDSM did not meet my inner needs - I was still experiencing a void at the end of each session. Gor was a way to discover other things. My current master and I have been together for four years now, and I am so lucky to have found someone who sees beyond sexual gratification. It goes much further, especially in the relationship between master and kajira.

Have you ever refused something to your master?

My master likes to joke about the fact that if he ordered me to jump from a roof, I will struggle all the way through, but I will eventually jump anyway. I have some limitations that come from my childhood traumas, but since I practice BDSM and the Gorean way of life, I have used my safe word only three times. I don't like it, because I feel like I'm disappointing my partner.

Do you believe it's the "natural order"?

It's something that has been bothering me for years. I have served women and men, but I have the impression that no one can control me as a man can.

Being a kajira help you emancipate yourself?

I really started to grow up and be more independent since I discovered Gor. I feel like I finally have a grip on my emotions after a long period of depression and anxiety. I still have my moments of anxiety, but I'm lucky to be with a master who knows how to control it. When I look in the mirror, I see that I have changed, both physically and mentally.

Anne, 53, retired teacher

Since when are you a kajira?

Anne: For thirty years, always with the same master.

How did you meet him?

My husband at the time exchanged me for a pair of boots during a medieval reenactment. I think the shopper thought he had me for the weekend, but he ended up keeping me. He was Gorean. I had never heard of it, and I had never practiced BDSM or anything else. He began by having me read the books, and I concluded that I was Gorean for a very long time - it's just that I did not know the terminology.

How is your relationship?

Sex plays only a small role. When we go out, we look like an old couple of 50s, not crazy about sex. Many people associate Gor with an ultra severe protocol, with whips, chains, and a kajira violently beaten, but that's not really our case. For us, it's more a question of state of mind. We do what he wants to do.

Is there anything you would not want to do for your master?

Other than cutting my arm or shooting someone, no. At the same time, he is not a psychopath and he wouldn't harm me intentionally; he's reasonable. I never really have a reason to say no. In general, I have to ask permission, for example if I spend money or if I want a dessert.

Would you qualify your romantic relationship?

It is, even if we do not use the word "love" very often. He does not want to appear weak. It's very appropriate for me as a kajira to say, "I love you, Master". It's less appropriate for him to say "I love you" in return.

Alice, 24 years old, military

Since when are you a kajira?

Alice: Almost four months. Friends from BDSM circle told me about it. But my master - who is also my husband - and I mix two other practices: DDLG [Daddy Dom / Little Girl] and animal role play. So we are far from the typical Goreans couple.

What do you like about it?

It may sound strange, but it helps me to overcome my anxiety and depression. The rules my husband and I have agreed on leave me with little room for maneuver, and I have to accomplish daily chores to keep my mind from wandering in unknown areas. I also like the honesty and trust that it has allowed me to build with my husband. I would not be as open and honest with myself if I had not discovered the Gorean subculture and BDSM.

How do you serve your master?

I clean the house, I prepare dinner, I go shopping and I sexually submit myself. Overall, I am a traditional housewife, except that I am punished when I don't toe the line.

Are you a full time kajira?

Yes, but that doesn't mean that I can't do what I want. I keep my husband informed of my going back and forth and I keep my phone on when I go out. I have rules to follow, which have been agreed with my husband, but they are all related to sex.

Jill, 55, artist

Since when are you a kajira?

Jill: About ten years ago. I've heard about it a year or two before adopting this lifestyle.

How did you come to practice it?

I am bipolar and I was going through a suicidal depression at the time. I was afraid of losing control of myself and I knew a friend who was a master. I decided to give him control to stay alive. I knew that by having a master, I could not kill myself, and that's how I became a kajira.

How do you submit to your master?

I'm his - it's as simple as that. It's difficult because he lives in Connecticut and me in Ontario, but I'm online most of the time. If he wants company, if he needs to talk, I'm here. I wear a necklace, but I do not consider it to be mine. That's his necklace, because all I own is his, even my money. He has access to my bank account. It's a relationship of trust. I love it.

Do you find this lifestyle emancipatory?

Totally. It requires a lot of strength. I am a strong woman. I am what is called a "first woman" - in our polyamorous group, my master and I are the main couple. People come to me with all sorts of questions, not only about the lifestyle, but also about personal issues. I like giving advice.

You call yourself "progressive kajira". What does this mean to you ?

I am a feminist. Many people think they know how life should be and see kajirae as animals. Well, sorry, but the law of my country says that I am human, and Gor's laws are imaginary. I am quite aware that we are in the 21st century, on Earth, and that the Gor planet is fictional ... Besides, I am not a big fan of books.

The names have been changed to protect the privacy of participants.

[thick87]

I started reading them back in the 80's when I was an early teen.  I think I still have 1 through 18.  I used to have all the way to 23, and last I heard there were 26.  Not sure how far they went, as I moved onto other authors.

Although the writing was admittedly not the best and got pretty repetitive, I was always surprised at how the women I encountered responded nearly exactly like what was in the books - even the liberal/feminist types.  When I got them alone and calmly asserted my will and physical dominance, they all reacted just like the women in the books (at least while in the bedroom.)  Then, I usually had trouble getting rid of them.  The more assertive women tended to distance themselves publicly, but they'd just show up at odd hours wanting to be dominated.  It got so prevalent that my friend's girlfriends would question what I did to these women to make them ALL act so 'crazy.'

Although that is a bunch of fun, I was surprised at how much energy it takes to be like that with every woman I was seeing at the time, because once I would take that dominant stance in the bedroom that's all they wanted.  All in all, those books gave a clueless teenager one hell of a blueprint for how to act with women!

[Romulus]

I never was able to like the GOR series as much as I wanted to. The cover art always drew me in, so I kept trying. It was the society of female slavery that keeps me from getting into it that much. I like rape (in fantasy). Life as a slave does not work the same for my mind. The way the women are just expected to give in to men's sexual use is not the same to me. The giving in and that it's expected doesn't have the turn on that what I consider rape has. I like that the rape is not expected to happen. In a society where women are expected to just provide sex to the men who want it is not enticing to me. The only one that really got me was a scene in one where a "free woman" who was considered higher up in society and not a low woman, that had been travelling with them, found out that she had actually been born a slave that was bought and sold, and I don't remember how it turned out she had lived life thinking she was above that all that time, but then when it was found out and she was able to be freely molested and abused, was hot. Because she had been raised to not expect that. Whereas a slave expects to be used like that.

I have the same issues with the ERENISCH SLAVE WORLD SERIES:
"the year 2022... Many countries have passed the 'Compulsory Female Slavery Law' and legalized the sexual-use and trade
of nubile women over 18 years of age. When a girl reaches slavery age, she can be bought and sold, hired and whored, and used in every imaginable way.  She becomes her owner’s personal property...." 
Because in that world women can expect that kind of life. I like rape to be something the target should not expect to happen.

However I can enjoy a woman captured and then trafficked story. It's still not something the woman expected could happen. Similarly I don't like stories where the woman ends up liking it. Her body betrays her can be hot, but actually mentally liking it is not my cup of tea.