[Hazard]

@strugglealt3

Nice to read a well thought out introspective analysis. Sounds like it can be summarised as you were a nerdy kid, not getting girls and girls were simultaneously made more unattainable by being seemingly strong, which formed the seed of unbalanced unattainable desire. Then later in life the realisation they weren't as strong made them seem vulnerable and possible to get with force, which sprouted the seed.

I think any psychologist would tell you that's a pretty natural development of that fantasy, and I do actually think you can change it and become more vanilla.

Up until me late 20s I had maybe only 2 or 3 relationships, and my fantasy was still strong. In my head, there were lots of women out there I desired and hadn't had, and the roots of my fantasy at the time were still dug in. Then I kind of turned a corner in my confidence I guess, and over the next 10 years, went out with lots of different women. Two had really powerful jobs and were strong personalities, and they were the ones who had the strongest rape fantasy elements themselves. They allowed me to live them out to a small degree, and get those acts out of my system which probably helped. There were lots of others, and one was even a stripper, which I guess ticked a big "unattainable" psychology box and showed me I had something to appeal to all types. I expect people to be skeptical about that on this forum, but believe what you want.

The result was, overtime my brain got partially reprogrammed to believe I can have a subset of those women I considered unattainable, and sex switched to a more high self-esteem perspective where they were just equals I was having fun with. It was also partially down to the women. Unsurprisingly, the stripper was super confident, and being with someone who would get all her clothes off herself before we even got to the bedroom and found it super easy made the whole situation with her super relaxed, and that in turn made the sex super easy going. We also have lots of at length conversations about how she separates getting naked for strangers with our relationship, and that conquered feelings of posessiveness or jealousy. So that was healthy for me in many ways.

I also went out with a few women who were hot but boring as fuck and I didn't enjoy those relationships past the first few months. The result of that experience was I learnt those "unattainable" women bouncing about with their great bodies are really nothing special. The special ones are the ones with great minds and they only have to have average bodies to make them a better prospect. So seeing hot women in public is easy on the eye, and sure I'd like to put my penis in them, but I certainly don't rate them anything like I used to.

The upshot is, I'm more vanilla now than I ever was, and rape fantasy only plays a part when I've been single for a while. As soon as I connect with someone, it pretty much goes out the window, except to maybe make me more animalistic in the bedroom (so it's just an asset), but I'm no longer conquering in any way … I'm just enjoying something with someone I like.

So I guess my advice to any guy who sees their fantasy as a hindrance and is an otherwise nice dude, just find your inner confidence and get out there. Do all the things you already know you need to do to improve yourself and get the girls, develop your physical confidence, confidence in comparison to other men, confidence in who you are and confidence in how women perceive you, and rape fantasy will become less and less relavent. Not suggesting all that is easy, but most people know what they have to do.  

Thanks for the kind words and the advice!

I'm not nearly as pathetic a socially awkward nerd as I used to be, and I don't even play video games anymore (I just find them boring now). But one thing about me has remained the same: I don't really feel any desire to have a long-term relationship. I don't even really have friends outside of the internet, which is by design. I love being alone, and I don't really want to get close to anyone. Now, one thing I have considered is trying to get better at having no-strings-attached casual sex, which is something I've never really devoted much effort to but which I'm sure I could manage if I was willing to put the effort in. I don't drink, but I'm sure that's no big barrier.

I guess the issue now is just laziness! I could do that, but man, it'd be so much effort and I'm not quite unhappy enough with the current situation to want to go out of my way to change it. Do I want to be more sexually vanilla? Yes, but not enough that I'm willing to go to such lengths outside my current comfort zone to change, at least not yet. I expect that will change eventually though.

[Kylie]

Thank you for sharing this perspective, Strugglealt. 

Do you think it can be beyond physical too?
I know and experience in the science field, that many men always feel men must be smarter too.  And sometimes that attitude leads to their behavior.

No, I have no idea what this suggests exactly but I've never had any prejudices about women's intelligence, even on an instinctive level. Well, not women on the whole anyway. I remember being disbelievingly shocked when the pretty girl who acted like an airhead got a better score in maths than me, but that was because of the way she specifically behaved (turns out she was a LOT smarter than she let on, which I now respect a hell of a lot more than I did back then).

[Hazard]

Now, one thing I have considered is trying to get better at having no-strings-attached casual sex, which is something I've never really devoted much effort to but which I'm sure I could manage if I was willing to put the effort in. I don't drink, but I'm sure that's no big barrier.

I haven't had many relationships like that, but I've had a few. I'm also not a big drinker and also totally don't have game, so wouldn't really be able to pull at the pub either. Like, those first big game flirtations are surface things and I can't do those well, so I don't really try. If it doesn't come naturally to you, I wouldn't try either.

Your best bet is probably internet dating and using a site like OKCupid which has more kinksters on it. I wouldn't suggest trying to find someone for FWB, as that's how you'll come across. You'll have a better chance by meeting people in a genuine fashion, charming the pants of them and flirting like a mofo, and then seeing if you can convert to FWB after a few dates. Ideally they'd suggest it, and if you make it clear you fancy them but don't see any kind of relationship connection, they may well suggest it themselves if they're open to it.

It's definitely something I might think about. For now, though, my discomfort over my kinks is fairly mild, and I don't quite feel desperate enough for change to break out of my current routine. I get my urges out in the occasional story, post it on here for a few people to briefly skim over (), and then go back to feeling mostly satisfied. In general, I'm a guy who doesn't break habits short of catastrophe.

Talking about it on here absolutely helps, too. Understanding my kinks goes a hell of a long way to reducing my discomfort with them.

Nice to read a well thought out introspective analysis. Sounds like it can be summarised as you were a nerdy kid, not getting girls and girls were simultaneously made more unattainable by being seemingly strong, which formed the seed of unbalanced unattainable desire. Then later in life the realisation they weren't as strong made them seem vulnerable and possible to get with force, which sprouted the seed.

For me, I was a very nerdy kid who was a beanpole on top of everything else, and was always socially awkward. I was friends with some of those pretty girls who seemed out of my league, and one day, in my junior year, one of those unattainable girls asked me out. Of course, I happily accepted. It turns out, she and a few of her friends thought it would be amusing to ask me out to see my reactions, as though someone like me would ever get a chance to date one of them.

For me, it's where a lot of my thoughts and fantasies ended up. The anger and embarrassment I suffered had far reaching effects, as I don't really trust people--especially women--who show any sort of kindness towards me. For women, if they flirt with me, I will respond, but at the same time, I'm very cautious and expect they are just full of talk and find this all a game. But...at the same time I can't help but look at a beautiful woman and think about the idea of raping them...embarrassing them...humiliating them and bringing them down to size.

A lot of my fantasies are based around that experience and my time in the military, when many of those girls saw me fill out and suddenly found themselves interested in me for real. My fantasies revolve around taking them out on a date, then taking them home and raping them repeatedly in their own home for days on end, to break them and show them that they aren't that special, and they, too can be humiliated and untrusting of others for the rest of their life.

[MarieSophie]

This is something I have fantasies about, but thankfully it had never happened in real life.   I wonder if for people like me have continued to have fantasies if it did really happen.

This is something I have fantasies about, but thankfully it had never happened in real life.   I wonder if for people like me have continued to have fantasies if it did really happen.

Yes! I have had fantasies before and afterwards. However the fantasies are more darker, more intense and mentally stimulating than sexually,  and I have to not let my mind wander too much otherwise we could go back there.
Before I used to visualize my rapist in fantasies, sometimes I’d only be a passer by watching it.
No I have no face for him, he’s always masked. Or I just can’t see him. For awhile I blocked them out, but my mind can’t stop it. So I’ve just accepted I’ll always have them.

Sometimes I think I am just to ugly to get women in the normal way and think about f*cking them. Then again, its not rape as its consensual in my head.

[CorriePo]

Sometimes I think I am just to ugly to get women in the normal way and think about f*cking them. Then again, its not rape as its consensual in my head.

I find that my aggressor is always either unattractive or in someway never someone I would date. This seems to be an essential component for me.

[Persephone (she/her)]

I grew up fairly sheltered as a kid, even though I went to public school all my life, but it wasn't until my senior year of high school and most of college where my parents began to be more lenient. So, I've had little to no actual experience in sex, let alone kissing - my only source to learn about that was from late-night tv, books I'd secretly read in the library, and eventually the internet (especially porn); a lot of those things included a lot of forceful sexual acts.

I basically learned everything through mainly porn, and I found that I was always drawn to violent porn. I eventually learned in sex education in school (which sucked ass, as usual) but I also tried to do my own research because even my parents never gave me the talk.

I also think that in the last few years, since I've never really been allowed to actually explore my body when I was younger or explore with someone else, I've had these scenarios and fantasies where I've had my body forcefully explored, if that makes sense. Of course, the pandemic makes it even harder to date, but joining here has helped in fleshing out these fantasies so that I can put words to them and have labels on them.

Merit for honest sharing

[Verbal13]

I will answer the thread topic and questions after I first want to acknowledge how cool this is.  I'm very glad to have found this discussion.
While reading this entire thread- start 2016 to last 2021- I observed it adds real value to Ravishu, IMHO.
1   Potential for direct healing -Some consensus among ladies: relating to abuse the act/process of writing, that expression is cathartic for many.
2.  A knowledge resource - reading this variety of viewpoints in context with experience is more than just interesting, it helps us understand ourselves better. Members here organically contributing one at a time, gathered information into this thread. Could we call it collaborative wisdom?
3.  Solidarity and community found together at RU. The illusion of unique abnormality is lifted by finding others like ust.  My interests fly in the face of social consensus. Rough having a truth that seems best kept as a secret, right?   This thread shows how ‘not alone’ we are. We read how others survived, hear how they adapted. Encouragement through anecdotal success; something like, “if she can do it, I can too”
4. Wonderful connections - through social networking, a community developed: y’all did this well. I am a newcomer to something here which began years back. I perceive the friendship found among some members.

It’s an honor to become involved.  I got a bit more to bring to the party...
-Verbal13

[Verbal13]

As I mentioned, “Reasons for Rape Fantasy” is a meaningful and enlightening thread;  I’m so glad I stumbled into this. I’ve long remained puzzled why ravishment is my #1 turn on. I will engage this thread's subject and questions with my own thoughts but first is scholarly summary of 30+ years research, what little is known, Women's fantasy about forced sex:

“Women’s Erotic Rape Fantasies: An Evaluation of Theory and Research[/url][/b]

2008. article blends contemporary Canadian, UK and American perspectives, in connection with Journal of Sex Research. ~12 pages.

Complete source details included. If link problems, PM me but if first fails, try second HYPERLINK to article:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h-5iYor6Wkb5JbNSNj0MV5aSnvMG-Bak/view?usp=sharing

For those of you reluctant to dig in this academic stuff, I offer my condensed summary to spare you:

    Reviews academic literature (since 1940s) on ladies’ fantasy re: rape. 

    It emphasizes:  Fantasy (pretend-play) is absolutely distinct from actual (real) rape.   

    Rape defined as: a) Forced b) Sex c) Non Consent. For females, it is counter intuitive and puzzling to desire something which would in reality be a traumatic not erotic event.  Critical here to note that FANTASY is safe and good. Reality obviously something repugnant.  This is an point may seem subtle but is crucial to grasp; I've noticed the distinction well explained many places around here at RU.  What makes this article interesting is the ideas proposed to understand women's points of view.

    Article explores eight explanations/theories to answer: “Why's something so bad, can in fantasy, feel so damn exciting?”


8 Current explanations women have rape fantasy:
Reordered starting newer ‘better’ ideas then older whacky theories

Sympathetic Activation - only theory not psychology based: like ‘fight or flight’ response, female adaptation to reality of forced sex with appropriate physiological reactions to mitigate suffering and injury. Body responds to the situation, prior to, nervous system with mental/psych/frontal cortex thought process.

Idea blends well with ‘adversary transformation’ below. Also attributes power to female sexuality as potent, adaptable, accommodating, resilient, ultimately beneficial. (as opposed to corrupting, sinful,dangerous) 

Adversary Transformation - theory actually drawn from modern romance fiction content. Idea is the warrior/dangerous male is subdued, changed from encounter with female sexual power. No less masculine, evil may convert to good.

    Synergy exists with Sympathetic Activation by avoiding judgmental views on female sexuality (shame/rape culture) instead gives voice and agency to womens’ sexual experience and perspective. 

Older weak theories:

Masochism - lol

Biology - surrender by nature

Sex Blame Avoidance - presumes archaic shame/guilt/blame with female sexuality. = nonsense, IMHO

Openness to Sexual Experience -healthy open & accepting attitude by women,  realistic about the actual sexual experiences they identify with pleasure.  IMHO, Not entirely terrible idea but woefully inadequate explination.

Desirability - attractiveness, seductive, sexual power, feeling wanted, needed

Male Rape Culture - a pathological manifestation of masculine dominated culture- women finding desirability within male paradigm. Male culture doesn’t provoke female adaptation, re-identification for sexuality i.e. ‘become fuckable’

Please read the paper, my summary is inadequate plus tainted by bias.
Good food for thought?  I hope ideas about Adversary Transformation and Sympathetic Activation make sense. I feel these ideas offer a better future for re-understanding female sexuality - alternatives to the 'slut shaming' double standards & oppressive bullshit women have suffered for too long.  So I'll try to chill but I intend to examine sexuality a bit further to understand how trauma and experience can influence/shift our sexual drive. This has been a life-long conundrum and thorn in my side. It seems I am not alone, yeah? 
Finally this forum offers potential to gather our thoughts, share what we understand as we puzzle overquestions around controversial kinks with other like-minded people.
I look forward to better understanding ourselves together.  Warm Regards,VerBal13