Author Topic: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn  (Read 2064 times)

wjimmy
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Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« on: May 19, 2015, 12:56:28 AM »
The central distinction that’s usually drawn on erotic story sites is the one between reality and fantasy. I’d say that applies to Ravishu as well: the vast majority of the content here is text-based and most stories begin with a disclaimer along these lines: ‘This is only fantasy. I wouldn’t condone what happens in the story if it happened in real life.’ And I’m sure that’s true for the vast majority of story posters. So, for written erotica, the distinction between fantasy and reality holds up quite strongly, as far as I’m concerned.

But there seems to be a need for a third term, somewhere between fantasy and reality, when it comes to visual porn – especially video. To state the blindingly obvious, although most porn films are staged performances, and therefore essentially different from real life, they do involve real sex acts. Porn sex may be artificial and exaggerated in all sorts of ways — in the moans of the participants, for instance, or in the extreme duration of a fuck — but real penises or other objects are inserted into real human orifices in porn. Real sensations and emotions are therefore involved, even though they’re probably mediated by the artificiality of the context in which they’re filmed or photographed.
 
Which brings me to rape porn films: This isn’t a genre I’ve actively sought out, so I’ve only caught passing glimpses. But there seems to be general agreement on this site that filmed rape porn is usually unsatisfying because it’s tame and artificial. (Please correct me if I’m wrong there.) However, to film and distribute a real rape would, I assume, simply be horrific — and, therefore, entirely unacceptable.

I also assume that the simulated acts of what might be called ‘ethically acceptable’ rape porn do involve at least a degree of genuine physical and/or emotional discomfort for the victim. That may be a suffering one can assume the victim welcomes — as do ‘subs’ in BDSM productions, for example — but it still involves instances of pain, humiliation and degradation, however safe the filming environment may be. It’s that element of real sensation and emotion in even a simulated rape scene that makes me argue for a third term between fantasy, on the one hand, and reality, on the other, when it comes to visual porn.

I don’t really know where that leads me — and I suspect I may have done no more than state the obvious. But I’d be interested in other people’s thoughts on the fantasy/reality distinction where it comes to rape porn, and how that affects those of us who are drawn to representations of the subject in some way.  
 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 05:18:39 PM by wjimmy »

9ismine
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2015, 02:56:32 AM »
The central distinction that’s usually drawn on erotic story sites is the one between reality and fantasy. I’d say that applies to Ravishu as well: the vast majority of the content here is text-based and most stories begin with a disclaimer along these lines: ‘This is only fantasy. I wouldn’t condone what happens in the story if it happened in real life.’ And I’m sure that’s true for the vast majority of story posters. So, for written erotica, the distinction between fantasy and reality holds up quite strongly, as far as I’m concerned.

But there seems to be a need for a third term, somewhere between fantasy and reality, when it comes to visual porn – especially video. To state the blindingly obvious, although most porn films are staged performances, and therefore essentially different from real life, they do involve real sex acts. Porn sex may be artificial and exaggerated in all sorts of ways — in the moans of the participants, for instance, or in the extreme duration of a fuck — but real penises or other objects are inserted into real human orifices in porn. Real sensations and emotions are therefore involved, even though they’re probably mediated by the artificiality of the context in which they’re filmed or photographed.
 
Which brings me to rape porn films: This isn’t a genre I’ve actively sought out, so I’ve only caught passing glimpses. But there seems to be general agreement on this site that filmed rape porn is usually unsatisfying because it’s tame and artificial. (Please correct me if I’m wrong there.) However, to film and distribute a real rape would, I assume, simply be horrific — and, therefore, entirely unacceptable.

I also assume that the simulated acts of what might be called ‘ethically acceptable’ rape porn do involve at least a degree of genuine physical and/or emotional discomfort for the victim. That may be a suffering one can assume the victim welcomes — as do ‘subs’ in BDSM productions, for example — but it still involves instances of pain, humiliation and degradation, however safe the filming environment may be. It’s that element of real sensation and emotion in even a simulated rape scene that makes me argue for a third term between fantasy, on the one hand, and reality, on the other, when it comes to visual porn.

I don’t really know where that leads me — and I suspect I may have done no more than state the obvious. But I’d be interested in other people’s thoughts on the fantasy/reality distinction where it comes to rape porn, and how that affects those of us who are drawn to representations of the subject in some way.  
 


"Rape porn" doesn't do anything for me, and more than likely because of the reasons you've stated. For it to be satisfying and brutal enough to accommodate my thirst for the darkest of the dark, it would have to be extremely convincing. And "rape porn" is usually so poorly staged, or just so generic overall, that I exit out before the first couple of minutes are over. I pretty much feel the way you do. I don't know how I feel about this. I've never sought out the things I fantasize about, because to be honest, if I could find a video containing what I imagine in the bath tub or under my sheets it'd most certainly be illegal. And perhaps freak me out to access it. I definitely prefer reading rape stories rather than watching videos regarding my fetishes, because then I can make it however I want it to be and imagine it to be as brutal as I want. I rarely seek out videos anymore. Sometimes, imagery works, though. But as far as porn goes, the rape genre is trash.

Also, it's worth adding, I have found scenes from movies to be adequate. More so than "rape porn" they work for me because they are often convincing. For example, the scene from Girl with the Dragon Tattoo or The Last House on the Left turned me on right in the theater.

wjimmy
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2015, 01:20:04 AM »
It strikes me that the 'third term' between fantasy and reality, that I mentioned above, already exists. It's hyperreality:

Quote
... hyperreality is an inability of consciousness to distinguish reality from a simulation of reality, especially in technologically advanced postmodern societies. Hyperreality is seen as a condition in which what is real and what is fiction are seamlessly blended together so that there is no clear distinction between where one ends and the other begins. It allows the co-mingling of physical reality with virtual reality (VR) and human intelligence with artificial intelligence (AI). Individuals may find themselves for different reasons, more in tune or involved with the hyperreal world and less with the physical real world.

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality

(Of course, that definition assumes that a single identifiable base reality exists - an idea that would be questioned by quite a few people nowadays.)

This, from reddit, sums up the relation between hyperreality and visual porn:

Quote
... the largest example of hyper-reality by far is pornography. it's sexuality, one of life's most intimate and sensory encompassing actions, being infinitely reduced to a virtual experience devoid of any sense beyond sight and sound. in pornography, you are not having sex with a partner or porn star, and you are not having sex with yourself; you are running a socially-conditioned simulation of an ideal of sex, a knowingly unobtainable object of desire that you virtually become attached to until you are satisfied, after which you are sucked back into the "unsatisfactory" reality of being naked in a room, alone.

SOURCE: http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/yz223/porn_as_hyperreality/  

And this short, non-pornographic video about the modern conception of female beauty illustrates the 'hypering' of our current reality in a very concrete way, in my opinion:

http://www.nextnature.net/2007/03/simulacra-for-dummies/
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 01:45:38 AM by wjimmy »

Offline Titi

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 09:31:47 PM »
I agree that rape porn, in general, is poorly acted and ridiculous, and frankly don't know who it's targeted at, since it seems to be consensus among rape enthusiasts that it does nothing for us.

But a good rape porn is quite achievable. And here I disagree with you, it's quite possible to have good rape scenes in which the "victim" didn't really suffer at all. It all depends on good acting and directing. There are many non-porn movies with rape scenes that are very realistic and enticing, some are even fap material (I once left a screening in the middle to go to the bathroom and relieve myself). Those aren't even real sex scenes, much less real suffering scenes.

On the other hand, a rape porn movie in which the victim was actually degraded/beaten/ravished, albeit consensually, is not unfeasible. Think of the more extreme S&M porn movies, women there are getting real physical abuse. Though I don't think that's necessary for rape.

9ismine
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2015, 11:12:36 PM »
I agree that rape porn, in general, is poorly acted and ridiculous, and frankly don't know who it's targeted at, since it seems to be consensus among rape enthusiasts that it does nothing for us.

But a good rape porn is quite achievable. And here I disagree with you, it's quite possible to have good rape scenes in which the "victim" didn't really suffer at all. It all depends on good acting and directing. There are many non-porn movies with rape scenes that are very realistic and enticing, some are even fap material (I once left a screening in the middle to go to the bathroom and relieve myself). Those aren't even real sex scenes, much less real suffering scenes.

On the other hand, a rape porn movie in which the victim was actually degraded/beaten/ravished, albeit consensually, is not unfeasible. Think of the more extreme S&M porn movies, women there are getting real physical abuse. Though I don't think that's necessary for rape.
You've definitely made a good point.

Brutal physical abuse isn't the only element that constitutes a good rape scene.

For example humiliation, reluctant pleasure, and psychological defeat isn't too brutal for the screen but are some of the most appealing parts of rape.
I didn't consider this.

Offline Kylie

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 04:22:19 PM »
This is why I like anime.  The best one show good expressions that they feel real, so I always look embarassed when I watch it.

Offline dawnamber

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 04:29:05 PM »
I think rape porn, in video form is weak at best. Anime is closer but then not real...

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strugglealt3
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2019, 08:51:40 PM »
I mostly don't watch video rape porn anymore because it always leaves me feeling a little bit unsatisfied, seeing as it never quite matches my fantasies. However I will say that I still love this one, because it's one of the few that does indeed almost exactly match my fantasies. Two tough, supposedly badass, MILFy female cops with big tits & asses being captured and raped into complete submission by the criminals they were trying to arrest? I don't care how bad the acting is or how cheap everything is or anything like that, I just can't turn down something that so totally matches everything I fantasize about.

Offline Kylie

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2019, 08:41:34 AM »
I think rape porn, in video form is weak at best. Anime is closer but then not real...

Anime is not real, but I think that is why I like it.  I use my imagination to control how real it feels.

Offline Hazard

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 01:10:53 PM »
But there seems to be general agreement on this site that filmed rape porn is usually unsatisfying because it’s tame and artificial. (Please correct me if I’m wrong there.) However, to film and distribute a real rape would, I assume, simply be horrific — and, therefore, entirely unacceptable.

This might be true for many members, but not for me. So long as the performances are vaguely convincing, and nobody breaks character or says some dumb shit, I find fake rape porn a big turn on. As soon as I see suffering for real, I find that a big turn off. The reason I'm here and not out punching women in the face is because my empathy circuits get tripped and I feel sick when I see someone actually suffer. The clearly fake rape porn allows me to get really into the fantasy, safe in the knowledge that nobody is getting hurt. All I need is the scenario to be plausible ( a setting or scenario is helpful), the women to be hot, and no dumb shit to be said, and I will happily suspend my disbelief.


As a side, I'm actually anti porn, and I wish it didn't exist. I do watch it now and then, and I hate how it desensitizes me to sex. If I have a porn sabbatical, it's literally measurable how it changes my perception of how attractive women are. If I'm single and get stuck in a porn cycle, then I find myself being drawn only to overtly sexual women. If I step away from it for a while, and concentrate on normal life, I find I start to see healthy attractive qualities in normal women. Rape porn causes it's own harm, making me think more and more selfishly about sex, and seeing women who are nice, and thus probably actually want a mutually satisfying sexual relationship, as probably too much work.  ::) It fucks us all up man!
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Offline Ineluctable Force
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2019, 02:50:06 AM »
I really can't do rape porn, mostly because I can't stand the look of most porn in general. I can be turned on by movie rape scenes and erotica, but there's just something about commercially produced rape porn (and most hardcore porn, for that matter) that makes me think, "nope." Part of it is the way the actresses look; I prefer women who don't look quite so fake. I tend to fantasize about attractive women you'd encounter while shopping or going to a typical university class, as well as the odd celebrity, but porn stars do very little for me.

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 06:22:24 AM »
This is an interesting topic to because as some of you know I flirted with the idea of joining the adult film industry. But I didn't want to become one of the many horror stories that are surprisingly easy to find if you know where to look. I'd considered doing a scene with blacked, reality kings and/or girls do porn. But I wanted to talk to girls who had done scenes for both companies first. And I did.  This is where the rape-"porn" comes in.  If you've never seen any of their videos, the entire draw is that the girls are usually new to porn, and its filmed like either an audition/first-time style video.  The truth is most of the girls are new to porn and have no idea what they are getting into.  Many of the girls are 18-22 and didn't realize how.....forceful....the scenes can be apparently.  When I talked to a former porn girl about this she said that no matter the level of pain they are in, they are told to smile.  She told me to rewatch a few of the videos and instead of looking at the girls smile, watch her eyes.  I did, and she was right you can see most of them are fighting back any outward expressions of pain, she said that her experience was just on the legal side of rape.  And while they did stop when asked, they berated her for having to take multiple breaks, openly talked about not paying her (eventually they did), and basically kicked her out of the hotel room while she was still trying to process the experience. 

I think most guys watch scenes from those kinds of sites for exactly the experience she had in her shoot.  It was unnecessarily rough, she was told that her discomfort was irrelevant and to just smile through it, and she felt very uncomfortable with the entire situation but in a room with 5 guys and her....going along with the scene and getting out relatively unharmed is probably the best course of action.
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Offline Hazard

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2019, 04:35:41 PM »
This is an interesting topic to because as some of you know I flirted with the idea of joining the adult film industry. But I didn't want to become one of the many horror stories that are surprisingly easy to find if you know where to look. I'd considered doing a scene with blacked, reality kings and/or girls do porn. But I wanted to talk to girls who had done scenes for both companies first. And I did.  This is where the rape-"porn" comes in.  If you've never seen any of their videos, the entire draw is that the girls are usually new to porn, and its filmed like either an audition/first-time style video.  The truth is most of the girls are new to porn and have no idea what they are getting into.  Many of the girls are 18-22 and didn't realize how.....forceful....the scenes can be apparently.  When I talked to a former porn girl about this she said that no matter the level of pain they are in, they are told to smile.  She told me to rewatch a few of the videos and instead of looking at the girls smile, watch her eyes.  I did, and she was right you can see most of them are fighting back any outward expressions of pain, she said that her experience was just on the legal side of rape.  And while they did stop when asked, they berated her for having to take multiple breaks, openly talked about not paying her (eventually they did), and basically kicked her out of the hotel room while she was still trying to process the experience. 

I think most guys watch scenes from those kinds of sites for exactly the experience she had in her shoot.  It was unnecessarily rough, she was told that her discomfort was irrelevant and to just smile through it, and she felt very uncomfortable with the entire situation but in a room with 5 guys and her....going along with the scene and getting out relatively unharmed is probably the best course of action.

If that's common, then that's pretty depressing. So what was your motivation to consider it? Was it purely money? Does it really pay that well?
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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2019, 06:29:42 PM »
This is an interesting topic to because as some of you know I flirted with the idea of joining the adult film industry. But I didn't want to become one of the many horror stories that are surprisingly easy to find if you know where to look. I'd considered doing a scene with blacked, reality kings and/or girls do porn. But I wanted to talk to girls who had done scenes for both companies first. And I did.  This is where the rape-"porn" comes in.  If you've never seen any of their videos, the entire draw is that the girls are usually new to porn, and its filmed like either an audition/first-time style video.  The truth is most of the girls are new to porn and have no idea what they are getting into.  Many of the girls are 18-22 and didn't realize how.....forceful....the scenes can be apparently.  When I talked to a former porn girl about this she said that no matter the level of pain they are in, they are told to smile.  She told me to rewatch a few of the videos and instead of looking at the girls smile, watch her eyes.  I did, and she was right you can see most of them are fighting back any outward expressions of pain, she said that her experience was just on the legal side of rape.  And while they did stop when asked, they berated her for having to take multiple breaks, openly talked about not paying her (eventually they did), and basically kicked her out of the hotel room while she was still trying to process the experience. 

I think most guys watch scenes from those kinds of sites for exactly the experience she had in her shoot.  It was unnecessarily rough, she was told that her discomfort was irrelevant and to just smile through it, and she felt very uncomfortable with the entire situation but in a room with 5 guys and her....going along with the scene and getting out relatively unharmed is probably the best course of action.

If that's common, then that's pretty depressing. So what was your motivation to consider it? Was it purely money? Does it really pay that well?


I was dealing with some stuff and had a pretty low value of myself when I was considering it. I figured I wasn't ever going to be in a healthy relationship, most people used me for see  (my fault not theirs), so why not get paid for it. And it pays fairly well. I was offered 1,950 plus travel and hotel for 3 nights. And I'd never done porn before. So basically it would have been 3 months rent for 3 hours of work. I got as far as the airport. But didn't go through with it.
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Offline Hazard

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Re: Fantasy, reality, and rape porn
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 02:15:00 PM »
So basically it would have been 3 months rent for 3 hours of work


Which is a great wage, but most jobs you can forget about once you go home. If there's any kind of psychological aftershocks, then that equations becomes more complicated than how you've just laid it out. Plus your abuse is immortalised on the internet for all time. I think you clearly made the right choice.   ::):
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