[Titi]

I'm not quite understanding this whole discussion. Might be I'm quite green on bdsm matters, but still...

"Too mouthy for a sub" in which regards? During sex, or during normal life? I had a D/S relationship once, in which I'd always tell my girlfriend what to do sexually, boss her around, degrade and humiliate her, etc., during which I expected her mouth shut. But that was only during sex. During normal life she was quite independent, a 50/50 relationship even somewhat pending to her side.

Would that have been a "mouthy" sub? Or, if she was quietly submissive during sex, she was not? And if so, how would a mouthy sub go about during sex? Defy orders, forge power struggles, stuff like that?

[kaitlin86]

From my own experiences within the BDSM community top and bottom are simply used to describe who is on the giving and who is on the receiving end of some form of bdsm play while Dominant/submissive and Master/slave means that there is some level of power exchange, real or pretend, involved in that persons play and/or relationship.

Something i've always really loved about the bdsm community as a whole is that you get to define yourself and identity however you want with what ever labels and words you feel suit you best. However that freedom means that there aren't any concrete definitions to some words when used with in the community. It's entirely possible for person A who identifies as a submissive to submit to their partner in a more comprehensive way than person B who identifies as a slave.

This really reminds me of part of The Submissives Creed, "I will not think myself a 'better' submissive because I choose to submit on a different level than another." For me trying to apply a concrete definition to submissive and slave as one being a more complete level of submission than the other can also easily imply that one is somehow better or superior to the other. And because submitting 24/7 with a list of protocols a mile long works dor me and me happy but doesn't work for or make Lois happy that doesn't in any way make me "better" than her. Just different. In the same way liking chocolate ice cream best doesn't make you better than someone who likes vanilla best. Anyways that's my two cents lol

[Ace]

Ahahahahah,  there's a whole subculture you're all missing here!

Brats!

I am a brat. I don't listen when told to do things, I interrupt my Daddy when he's busy, I complain instead of fixing things myself, I tell him off when I'm cranky, even if he's not the problem...

And I get lots and lots of spankings for my bad behavior.

I am a young woman, not really sexually experienced (think Anastasia Steele, actually, from the Book that Shall Not be Named... although I'm smarter than her and a much better writer) and lately I've been beginning to think that I *might* actually want to be in, like, a full time (not just in bed) D/S relationship. Because recently, I've realized that I hate making decisions for myself. I agonize over every little decision and I regret most of the decisions I make and it takes so much time and energy and I think I'm not really happy *sigh.* Also, I have NO self-discipline to do things I should do like eat healthy and exercise. I feel like I was a more successful and happier person when I was a child and that I can't make good decisions for myself as an adult. I feel like it would be so much easier if I could just follow someone else's orders and all I had to do was be good, like when I was a child.

I read an account written by some submissive who said that she had to follow certain rules of the sub/dom relationship out of bed for her own well-being (two of them were eating healthy and exercising for so many minutes a day) and I thought that... was kinda, well, hot and that I might actually *like* that.  

But about what makes a good sub, I agree with what Lois thinks. A good dom shouldn't abuse a submissive and a sub shouldn't have to take abuse. (Outside of what's mutually agreed upon in the bedroom, of course)

From my own experiences within the BDSM community top and bottom are simply used to describe who is on the giving and who is on the receiving end of some form of bdsm play while Dominant/submissive and Master/slave means that there is some level of power exchange, real or pretend, involved in that persons play and/or relationship.

Oh, hey, I have a question about this. Can a sub be a top in sexual acts? Like, could a gay sub fuck his dom in the ass? Or a woman sub fucking a male dom in the ass with a strap on? Or a woman sub fucking a woman dom in the pussy with a strap on?

Or is it ALWAYS sub on the bottom and dom on the top?

[Houdgreep]

@hornytheunicorn, that's generally called switching, so it's perfectly possible.

I do get some idea where this is coming from. I sometimes find these very respectful posts of men or women, just oozing courtesy in every reply they give. It's not that they never disagree, criticize or reject something, it's just a choice of words to do so. That's taking one form of submissiveness down to an art, and I think for most people outside the community that's one of the stereotypes of submissiveness. Perhaps that's what's causing some people who suddenly find someone demanding an apology or something like that reacting that the other side is not a true sub.

[Tinkerbell]

There's "topping from the bottom" which I was
always accused of doing on my brief forays
into BDSM. As well as being "mouthy," as the
"slave" I was constantly giving my Master
requests and suggestions about what I
wanted (and didn't want.

It wasn't "switching," where I took on the
Master role temporarily. I was still the slave,
but I wanted more control than was decent in
BDSM. The slave (bottom) is supposed to
transfer power to the Master (top).

I eventually learned I wasn't into BDSM at all.
I just like to play with a few of the toys used in
REAL BDSM.

Love,

Tink

[Brokenwing]

There's "topping from the bottom" which I was
always accused of doing on my brief forays
into BDSM. As well as being "mouthy," as the
"slave" I was constantly giving my Master
requests and suggestions about what I
wanted (and didn't want.

It wasn't "switching," where I took on the
Master role temporarily. I was still the slave,
but I wanted more control than was decent in
BDSM. The slave (bottom) is supposed to
transfer power to the Master (top).

I eventually learned I wasn't into BDSM at all.
I just like to play with a few of the toys used in
REAL BDSM.

Love,

Tink

But you didn't share which were your favorite toys.

[Tinkerbell]

Oh, well, my FIRST toy was this dildo I stole from mom
when we moved. We moved a lot. Did you know in
Minnesota it takes three months to evict a mom on
disability with an "at risk" daughter. I mean, I was long
past "at risk" by then, but what CPS doesn't know won't
hurt me. That was my #1 worry after getting pregnant:
that CPS would find out mom was a drunk and send me
to foster care. We all knew kids at school who just
"disappeared."

Anyway, we were moving and I saw this COCK sticking
out of this BOX. I was like, "Ooo look, mom has a dead
guy in that box and his cock is sticking out." NOT! So
I liberated it and put it in my backpack. I knew mom
wasn't going to be like, "Jamie honey? Have you seen
my dildo? It's black, and looks like an erect cock." It
had a vibrator in it, but I was usually too poor to afford
batteries but one time we had Science Lab at school
and I took some old ones. WAY too much stimulation
for me. I used it in the shower once, and then it
stopped working. Um, well, THAT'S false. Let's
just say it stopped vibrating.

So skip ahead to junior high and I sort of had this
handcuff fetish you can read about in one of my
stories. So I got this guy to put them on me. We
were in his car by Lake Nokomis, and we made
out with my hands cuffed behind my back. He was
pretty nervous, though, because I was fourteen
and he was like, twenty-two. I guess he didn't
want to get stopped with a mostly undressed,
handcuffed, fourteen year old girl in his car.

I got my own handcuffs in college. April and I went
to this Army Store on Cole Avenue. The guy was
really nice and helped me try on a bunch of
different ones, and I got some double lock Smith
and Wessons. Haven't USED them much, until
I started hooking up with G2. His real name is
"Jitu" and he's at Kristie's university on a student
visa. He used to go out with Kristie, but then
she started going to Johns Hopkins a lot. She was
like, "Stop whining! Call Jamie. She looks just
like me. With your cock in her mouth, you won't
know the difference." I mean, that's kind of
insulting. I love Kristie to death, but anyone
can tell you I am MUCH better at sucking cock.
AND, I look better blindfolded in handcuffs.

Anyway, G2 introduced me to being handcuffed
and blindfolded. He says every Pakistani dreams
of having a harem of young blond American girls,
and that when I am handcuffed and blindfolded on
my knees with my hair in pigtails, his dream
cums true. I can tell because I can't swallow it
all and it drips down on my tits.

Oh, yeah, I forgot. My ex-room mate Jenny is a
horsewoman. Um, in this context, that probably
doesn't have the meaning I intend. She's an
equestrienne. You know, fox hunting, horse
jumping,helmets, white shirts, jodphur boots?
Anyway, everyone was gone and her riding crop
was leaning against the door, so I sort of,
you know, tried it out.

Not the weird stuff, tit whipping and bush
whacking. Just on my tight little ass. (blush)
Well, okay, my legs, and even a little on my
tummy. It was kind of scary though, and when
I took this BDSM test I totally flunked sado and
maso, so I guess I'd be pretty boring.

So, putting it all together, I'm handcuffed,
blindfolded, my hair in pigtails, and G2 is using
first the dildo and then the riding crop before
mouth-fucking me senseless. 

Hasn't happened, yet, but unless they hurry up
and deport G2...

Love,

Tink

[SoftGameHunter]

You know, Tinkerbell, I'm starting to think you're far too un-innocent for that avatar to be your actual picture.

[Tinkerbell]

You know, Tinkerbell, I'm starting to think you're far too un-innocent for that avatar to be your actual picture.

It's not. I was in Austin with this guy at a street fair.
There was this guy doing caricatures, and he drew
me. So then I was looking at avatars, and the one
I picked looked just like the drawing! Well, almost
just like.

But I don't have wings, although this guy in the
scene shop was making me some. He was worried
though. He doesn't think I'm too smart. He's like,
"You know, Jamie, these wings aren't real. I don't
want you jumping off the clock tower or anything!"
I just shrugged and snapped my gum.

SO you can look on my profile and see. Some
say it looks like me, some say it doesn't. Some
say let's call the whole thing off.

ANyway, you sound like my shrink. He said I was
hypersexualized as a child and I needed to suck
his cock to get better. I was like, "My insurance
is paying you $240/hr for THAT?"

But I'm all right now, in fact, it's a gas!

Love,

Tink

[LezRapist]

You know, Tinkerbell, I'm starting to think you're far too un-innocent for that avatar to be your actual picture.

It's not. I was in Austin with this guy at a street fair.
There was this guy doing caricatures, and he drew
me. So then I was looking at avatars, and the one
I picked looked just like the drawing! Well, almost
just like.

But I don't have wings, although this guy in the
scene shop was making me some. He was worried
though. He doesn't think I'm too smart. He's like,
"You know, Jamie, these wings aren't real. I don't
want you jumping off the clock tower or anything!"
I just shrugged and snapped my gum.

SO you can look on my profile and see. Some
say it looks like me, some say it doesn't. Some
say let's call the whole thing off.

ANyway, you sound like my shrink. He said I was
hypersexualized as a child and I needed to suck
his cock to get better. I was like, "My insurance
is paying you $240/hr for THAT?"

But I'm all right now, in fact, it's a gas!

Love,

Tink

Ahh, Tink, I always enjoy reading your posts, and the various escapades contained therein.  And the song references, which I'm showing my age by recognizing immediately. 

[Tinkerbell]

 Yah, my friends think I'm a fossil because I
listen to that Olde Tyme R&R. Dad had the
whole BritRock discography ON VINYL.
You know, those big old fashioned black
CD's? So that's what I grew up with. I
majored in Brit Lit in college, because
the advisor was hot. All I wanted to do
was dance, but there was no
undergraduate degree in dance, so I had
to declare something else. Then I needed
an elective, so I took "Rock and Roll 101."
They didn't call it that, it was "Cultural
Voices something-something." The
homework was listening to R&R. The sex
and drugs were optional, but you know
how I am.

I was like, "I got this SO NAILED!" I mean
I GREW UP with this stuff, but then we
started with Buddy Holley and Chuck Berry
and Bill Haley and all these people I never
heard of. But I'm in dance, I deal with
music all the time and I have a good ear,
AND a tight butt. All I wanted to do was
dance, anyway.

Ballet music is mostly classical. It's not all
calcified. There is some modern classical in
dance. Like, I was in this school piece with
music by Phil Glass. He wrote it back when
there was this note shortage. There weren't
enough notes to go around, so he had to
use the same ones over and over. That's
okay, but it's hard to count. You know, like,
"five, six, seven, eight" but if It's the same
thing over and over, where do you START
counting?

The other music I dance to is rap, in Jazz
Class. The kids are teens, so the Bad Words
are "bleeped." Some of the songs sound
funny, like, "Gonna (BLEEP) that (BLEEP)
gonna  (BLEEP) her (BLEEP)" I mean it's all
so stupid, all the girls know all the words
anyway. I'm not sure how hearing "fuck" and
"bitch" and "ass" will affect them much, but I
DO know that the "bad words" hypocrisy is
confusing. I started to ask one of my better
students about it, but all I got was a great
eye-roll.

Love

Tink

[PenitentGirl]

I've always been complimented when I get mouthy... heh-heh



Joking aside, If he thinks I'm talking too much he should shove his cock in my mouth, until then I'm pretty much going to say whatever I want when I want.