[Lois]

Or are you? 

In your mind what do vanilla, D/s, and M/s relationships mean?

What is a bottom, submissive and a slave?  If you use definitions of these terms from elsewhere let us know.  If they have different meanings in your own mind let us know that too.

When my brother was married and having troubles, the marriage counselor told him that there is no such thing as a totally equal 50-50 relationship.  One member is always dominant, and squabbles over this often leads to trouble.  If this is true, is the recognition and formalization of D/s within a relationship a good thing?

What happens when one partner is Dominant in one aspect but not in others?  Is the D/s relationship flexible enough to allow for this?

And remember that in this thread no one is wrong and no one is right.  This is a thread about feelings and perceptions.  Not correct and incorrect.

[RopeFiend]

I *like* Smart Assed Submissives... it gives me all the excuse I need for turning 'em over my knee!  

[Gryphin_Rampant]

I consider myself to be "PreDominantly Dominant" within a relationship, er, most relationships.  My GF is allowed / encouraged to be fresh but that does not happen often.   

As for definitions, I think I use the "norm".
Top / bottom - more the physical
Dom / sub - more the psychological
Master / slave - more contractual

[Lois]

As I understand it:

Top/bottom = for play only.  I identify here mostly because for me it doesn't make sense to jump into any of the other kinds of relationships until I know I can actually respect and accept my partner in such a role.

Dom/sub = For me this is a natural thing that evolves in a relationship and comes out of respect for each other.  If I trust you to make decisions you become my Dominant, and I enjoy serving you.  I am very much a "my submission must be earned" kind of gal.  Accordingly I am typically suspicious of anyone who approaches me and says "because I am DOM you must submit to ME."  I am submissive to no one unless I choose to be.

Master/slave = I often see this as a more formalized relationship with strict protocols.  In this tradition anyone identified as slave generally follows protocols regarding how they approach anyone identified as Master.  Mostly I think of the leather tradition which focuses on service and mentoring (lots of value here),

but there are others who see it light of other traditions such as the Goreans   where all women are "slaves" based on their gender.  

[Lois]

More on submissive/slaves:

When I was being treated badly I stood up for myself and fought back, and even demanded an apology.  Because of this I was told by the person: "You are not really submissive."  This made me question my identity at the time, but I've learned several things since then:

1.  Submissive/slave does not equal doormat.

2.  Just because an individual identifies as submissive or slave does not mean they are YOUR submissive or slave.

So am I submissive?  To those that earn it yes, and can even identify as a BDSM slave to the right person.  But never assume that because you may identify yourself as a "Dom" or "Master" that any who identify as "submissive" or "slave" should call you "Sir".  All of these roles are conditional.

There are of course those that may disagree with me, and that is their right. 

[Gryphin_Rampant]

Lois I think your views reflect that of most members of the BDSM / kink community.

I would think "mouthiness" is not a disqualifier in terms of whether a woman could be a submissive.
Of course that is my personal view and it is quite probable that others may disagree.

[Lois]

I wouldn't either Desmond, although I have met those that believe differently.  It is interesting how differently people view things. 

I recently saw that a class is being offered with this topic.  I'll have to find the details and post them.

hmm...I think being mouthy is a subs right. Like you pointed out. Subs are people after all. But, it could also be said that if you are with the right dom then they could either.

A. deal with that and respect your wishes
or
B. not give you a reason to be mouthy in the first place

[zillahpandorica]

Lots of Doms and Masters prefer their girls to be smart, to have opinions, and even
to be opinionated!  There's a certain class of men that just don't get turned on
by a girl who doesn't have a thought in her head or two brain cells to rub together.

At that point, just get a blow-up doll.  That's my opinion, anyway.   

Then again, I'm very mouthy.   

And I also dislike Gor for the same reason--it assumes feminine inferiority and submission
in every case.  Kind of reminds me of a literary Taliban.  I have a friend who's a Gorean,
and in spite of his "code", he slips into treating me like a human being.

[SimplySivart]

I subscribe to the belief that only an educated woman can please an educated man.

[BoundLynn]

I've always subscribed to the idea that subs are suppose to be mouthy. If they've got no spunk to overcome where's the sense of accomplishment?

[SimplySivart]

I've always subscribed to the idea that subs are suppose to be mouthy. If they've got no spunk to overcome where's the sense of accomplishment?

This is also true. Anything worth having is a challenge to obtain.

[Strong in Heart]

Where's the fun in domming a dishcloth?

It's much more fun if your sub is mouthy!

For BOTH partners IMO!

 

[Tripp-Ns lil SLUT]

Being fairly new to the bdsm world, I am relieved to see that my views and opinions on this particular subject are not uncommon. I am more than willing to be slave/sub to my husband because he has earned my trust and respect, and I his. My behavior is for those who have earned it only. (And he is earning it RIGHT NOW even as I type with his head between my legs!) So glad we found somewhere to express and share our new found fun!