Author Topic: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing  (Read 2420 times)

Offline vile8r

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 12:50:50 AM »
I agree, small towns, especially what you call Prairie small towns, get a bad rap. I won't got into it, not now, but I know that most people in those small communities are far more accepting than people in big cities. One reason, there are just so many more chances to run into rotten people in the big cities. 

Yes we do! I grew up around small Canadian prairie towns and actually still live on the prairies. Some of the tropes however, aren't that far off, LOL! But yes, overall, I DO find people not as unaccepting as people in larger centres.   I, myself, like the redneck yokel trope, and I've used it a fair bit in stories. But I'm always looking more at the Southern type of redneck.  The ones from the Deep South of the US and other rural areas.  It is certainly a stereotype, and sometimes not a very flattering one, and I don't mean to paint all Southerners with that brush. I know there are some very good people from those areas too, and not all are beer-swilling tobacco-chewing unsophisticated oafs.

But unfortunately, a lot of them don't do themselves any favors when you see the idiot things they do and say in the media. i.e, the Florida Man stories you see in the news. It unfairly perpetuates an image that people in this part of the world are a bunch of simpleton idiots. That's not accurate of course, but like I say, for some of these people, they are their own worst enemies.
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Offline Petite99S

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 06:04:35 AM »
Ugh....   I understand that...  I know I've put my foot in my mouth more than a couple of times at work recently...  we are our worst enemy.  Coincidently, at a V-coffee Zoom meeting, a bunch of people at work were chatting about the Florida man reddit - hadn't realized it was a thing...
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Offline LtBroccoli

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2020, 11:01:51 PM »
Ugh....   I understand that...  I know I've put my foot in my mouth more than a couple of times at work recently...  we are our worst enemy.  Coincidently, at a V-coffee Zoom meeting, a bunch of people at work were chatting about the Florida man reddit - hadn't realized it was a thing...

Florida Man is like some crazy super hero.  By state law, every crime that gets reported to the police has to be mentioned in the paper.  Not just the big ones like murder or attempted regicide, but the little and crazy ones.  That's how you end up with things like "Florida Man rides lawnmower naked on interstate" or "Florida Man throws alligator through Wendy's Drive Thru window."  I want to write a story about how Florida Man is actually some kind of superhero who does these things in the process of stopping his villains.  He needed to ride the lawnmower on the interstate naked because Jaxson Ville threw acid at him and clothes melted, and being that he was just at the Lawnmower Races, he hopped on the best riding mower he could find.  But the cops stopped Florida Man after he caught Jaxson Ville.  Being a vigilante has it's costs.

Going a little bit back on topic, I found that the city folk are more accepting of different people.  Part of the reason is that they have to interact with everyone.  On a typical day, I could run into a thousand people of every shape, size, color, and creed.  My hometown of 30,000 had 'the black family', the 'Jewish families', and the 'Asians'.  And a lot of racist terms for them.  All of the racist terms I've used in my stories, I learned growing up in WhiteyWhiteville.  Back then it was a rare occasion to see black person or an immigrant, or a gay person.  Living in the city I had a roommate that was all three.

I grew up in a small town, moved to even smaller towns, and didn't feel welcome anywhere until I moved to the city in my 20's.  If you were even slightly different the small town people just didn't like you.  Or if you had the wrong friends or went to the wrong church, or didn't laugh at the right jokes, there was something wrong with you.  It could be that I was around a bunch of assholes and also had the social skills of reading people until my twenties that would rate just slightly below a toaster, but even later in life I've never felt comfortable in a small town.  Especially the last time I went back to my hometown.  The last four trips there I had complete white strangers feel comfortable enough around my white ass to drop the n-word, hard r, multiple times.

I think part of the bad rap for cities is that people conflate curtness for rudeness and ambivalence for disgust.  There's an old joke I heard a while back:
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and no one sees you, you're in the country.
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and your neighbor sees you and complains or calls the cops, you're in the suburbs.
If you step out on your front porch to get the mail naked and your neighbor sees you and doesn't give a shit, you're in the city.
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Offline bobbyjoecrossdresser

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2020, 09:43:50 AM »
I find it hard to believe you write anything soft or romantic, professionally or otherwise. It must be work for you to write those stories as a ghostwriter, when your nature, nurture, and disposition aren't really conducive to romance. The only people I know you have been romantic or tender with are you adoptive father and Jo. :) Hard licks for those that displease you, tough love, and an occasional, "Get the hell out of my life," are the things that I remember about you most.

Don't get me wrong, I love you, terribly love you. But you always scared the shit out of me when I displeased you. It seemed to be a hobby of mine when I lived with you guys, displeasing you I mean.

By the way, my house is always clean now, and so am I, clean and sober. You did that, you got me off drugs, you made me a better person. You threw me out of the house when I slipped up and I left Oklahoma. I got clean, again, then I got clean another time. I am still sober and plan to say so.

Tell Jo I love her. And I'll say it another time, I love you.

As to stereotypes, I have read your work, you are as guilty as anyone of using stereotypes. You do it well. You write the soft fem or sissy quite well, and it is so stereotypical that all these boys want to be girls. With that said, I like those stories a lot and I'm pretty stereotypical myself.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:06:56 AM by bobbyjoecrossdresser »
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2020, 11:26:54 AM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?
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Offline LtBroccoli

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2020, 03:35:54 PM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?

When I'm writing dialog, I like to have conversations with my characters.  Not always out loud, but the more the better.  I get some weird looks if I'm near anyone else, but I'm used to that. :)

Everyone has a different background.  What is the background of your characters?  What is their education, their environment, their curiosity, their accent, their heritage, their personalities, their ability to adapt?  Think about what they're trying to say or do before they do it.  That last part might not make sense, but think of it like this...

Larry, Joe, Sam, and Tasha are all planning a surprise birthday party for Mitch.  Larry is an older white guy from the country with no formal education.  Joe is a middle-aged accountant from Kansas City.  Sam is a young man from India.  Tasha is a young woman from the roughest of projects but knows how to 'whiten it up' when needed.  Mitch acts like a goofy frat bro but is really a deep-in-the-closet anime nerd.  If I were given this scene, I'd write out what I want to accomplish, write out some basic dialog that meets the story, then go back and ask how much do I have to change to make it feel right?  Do I have to make Larry drawl every sentence or say some crazy country slang in every response?  No.  But could I slip one in here and there?  Sure.  Does it make sense for Joe to say Ain't several times?  No.  But does he have to use polysyllabic words in every sentence?  No.  Does Sam need to sound like Apu?  Probably not, but he could slip in a "kindly do the needful" or "I have a doubt" when he has a question.  Tasha doesn't need to go all hood rat every sentence, but maybe an "aww, hell nah" once or twice.

After going through this process once or twice, I'll come up with the character's voices.  These voices belong to the characters.

Another thing that helps me, especially if I'm just introducing the character, is picture someone as them.  I have a few friends that I've used in my stories as a template until that character took on a life of their own.  Once that happened, I didn't have trouble coming up with their voices.
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Offline 90lbsofdynamite

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2020, 04:13:01 PM »
It's alright to use incomplete sentences and poor grammar for those that are uneducated,  no matter the race. You shouldn't try to use ghetto speak or ebonics unless you have actuality heard it used. I wouldn't trust the tv on this. On the incomplete sentances, most of us use a short hand, like Joey from Friends, "How you doing?" which is wrong, it's how are you doing? But most people say How you doing. If you are going to try perfect accents you'll need to do a lot of study.

My father has an unpublished Horror story set in Maine, He has several characters that speak similar to this “Ayuh, as I live and breathe, Willie boy, is that you?” ... “Can’t pahk yah cah on the dock pally, gots to pahk yah cah in the pahking lot, at’s what it’s tharh foh. Now, let me stress this, can’t pahk on the dock, ayah, even if yah is a Newsome!” Handing the young man, the ticket he added, “Welcome back, Willie boy taint seen yah around in a wicked long time.” ... and cockney man who speaks with the right accent, “I’m alone me parents were in the ‘ouse, and I’m sure they were killed.” ... “Only ‘eathens drink coffee,”  ... 

but it isn't necessary, useing a few slang phrases and stating they have a thick this or that accent is fine.
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2020, 05:06:55 PM »
I will just add, that unless you actually know Ebonics ... Don't use it for your characters, the occasional dis and dat is okay, but there are rules that are followed. I know, to people that haven't been around it, it just sounds like bad English and grammar, however, if you use it and a black that has been around it or spoken it reads it, you just look the fool. I mean, "Imma whip out mah motha fuckin' glock on choo if y'all don' shut yo mouth." If you can't tell me if that is correct or not, don't use it, just don't. Likewise, if you can, then still, you know, don't use it.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about this.

I'm a developing writer. I tinker around with erotic writing and I've been working on a series of Urban Fantasy books for a couple of years now. My writing started as inexpensive therapy for my mental health issues- it helps a lot and I want to take my writing to a higher level.

My stories involve humans, shapeshifters, and a lot of other magical oriented beings. Most of the characters interact in human form, and I've drawn on the Pittsburgh accents that I grew up with. I have a diverse group of important characters representing numerous races, I put a lot of effort into developing each character so they all have their own voices.

But my dialogue . . . well, lets just say that everyone kind of sounds the same.

I don't want to insult my characters by writing crappy language behaviors and diction, but I also don't want all of my characters to sound the same.

Can you offer some advice on how a developing writer can give some life to different characters with different ethnic backgrounds?

When I'm writing dialog, I like to have conversations with my characters.  Not always out loud, but the more the better.  I get some weird looks if I'm near anyone else, but I'm used to that. :)

Everyone has a different background.  What is the background of your characters?  What is their education, their environment, their curiosity, their accent, their heritage, their personalities, their ability to adapt?  Think about what they're trying to say or do before they do it.  That last part might not make sense, but think of it like this...

Larry, Joe, Sam, and Tasha are all planning a surprise birthday party for Mitch.  Larry is an older white guy from the country with no formal education.  Joe is a middle-aged accountant from Kansas City.  Sam is a young man from India.  Tasha is a young woman from the roughest of projects but knows how to 'whiten it up' when needed.  Mitch acts like a goofy frat bro but is really a deep-in-the-closet anime nerd.  If I were given this scene, I'd write out what I want to accomplish, write out some basic dialog that meets the story, then go back and ask how much do I have to change to make it feel right?  Do I have to make Larry drawl every sentence or say some crazy country slang in every response?  No.  But could I slip one in here and there?  Sure.  Does it make sense for Joe to say Ain't several times?  No.  But does he have to use polysyllabic words in every sentence?  No.  Does Sam need to sound like Apu?  Probably not, but he could slip in a "kindly do the needful" or "I have a doubt" when he has a question.  Tasha doesn't need to go all hood rat every sentence, but maybe an "aww, hell nah" once or twice.

After going through this process once or twice, I'll come up with the character's voices.  These voices belong to the characters.

Another thing that helps me, especially if I'm just introducing the character, is picture someone as them.  I have a few friends that I've used in my stories as a template until that character took on a life of their own.  Once that happened, I didn't have trouble coming up with their voices.

Thank you, that is more useful information about dialogue than I've found on my own!

I really appreciate your input.
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Offline fantasybear369

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2020, 05:11:13 PM »
It's alright to use incomplete sentences and poor grammar for those that are uneducated,  no matter the race. You shouldn't try to use ghetto speak or ebonics unless you have actuality heard it used. I wouldn't trust the tv on this. On the incomplete sentances, most of us use a short hand, like Joey from Friends, "How you doing?" which is wrong, it's how are you doing? But most people say How you doing. If you are going to try perfect accents you'll need to do a lot of study.

My father has an unpublished Horror story set in Maine, He has several characters that speak similar to this “Ayuh, as I live and breathe, Willie boy, is that you?” ... “Can’t pahk yah cah on the dock pally, gots to pahk yah cah in the pahking lot, at’s what it’s tharh foh. Now, let me stress this, can’t pahk on the dock, ayah, even if yah is a Newsome!” Handing the young man, the ticket he added, “Welcome back, Willie boy taint seen yah around in a wicked long time.” ... and cockney man who speaks with the right accent, “I’m alone me parents were in the ‘ouse, and I’m sure they were killed.” ... “Only ‘eathens drink coffee,”  ... 

but it isn't necessary, useing a few slang phrases and stating they have a thick this or that accent is fine.


I totally get what you're saying. Overdoing hard to read accents makes it a pain for the reader, which is what I am trying to avoid. More work on developing and describing my character will let the reader figure it our on their own.

Thanks! I've gotten some great advice here today  ::):
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Offline Master Sergeant

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2021, 10:02:24 AM »
Surely there must be books or websites for accents.  Thinking not just of writers, but screen writers.

Offline 90lbsofdynamite

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2021, 03:40:12 PM »
Surely there must be books or websites for accents.  Thinking not just of writers, but screen writers.

Accents and dialects are easier to hear than to write. It's hard to read something that's written in cockney speak, "'Ow you doing, 'Arley say's 'ellow to you and yours and wishes you was with 'er." If don't get what your doing, they'll stop reading. Saying they speak with a Maine accent works better than trying to put all the proper endings on the words. It just doesn't work well in writing to write accents. People get frustrated reading them.
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Offline Master Sergeant

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2021, 04:48:26 PM »
Good point. I rather often find myself reading British fiction and some of the Cockney and York text might as well be in Nepalese.  Air Force guy I had a beer with once told me that outside of London you can't eavesdrop on buses because everyone is talking in the local dialect.  Proper English, which I support as a mean to communicate, is actually the London dialect, that is where the first printing presses were.  Germany is the same and I think France too.  Still, I'd like to be able to toss a word in occasionally to 'organically' place the speaker, but would anyone recognize it as regional and not just bad spelling combined with poor editing. LOL

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2021, 03:29:38 AM »
France is completely different from Germany when it comes to spoken language uniformity. In Germany, spoken language changes (sometimes a lot) from one region to another;language used in the media is "standard German", which is I think refered to as "Hochdeutsch". In France, they have systematically eradicated dialects in 19th century. Today, spoken French is basically the same everywhere in France, barring minor differences; in France, it is deeply ingrained in culture to shame those who speak regional dialects, as it isn't "pure French". We call this "le bon usage" as opposed to "incorrect use", which is sometimes sad because some elements labelled as "incorrect" have a history dating as far back as Middle Ages.

Québec where I live is an exception, because it has been cut off from France when it became a British possession in 1763. Spoken French in Québec is different. Our spoken accent is also quite different and very close to Poitou's original dialect, as most of our ancestors hailed from there. In my current gang-rape story, which takes place in Quebec City, I have victims swearing and protesting in this particular regional French (it wasn't easy to translate in English and there was no way I could go "word for word"). It's perfectly authentic because I am myself a Québécois.

I have other stories involving Aussie girls, only one of which has been posted here. I have dated an Aussie woman for almost a year, so I can use more localized words such as "donger" for "dick", but I won't take the Aussieboo game farther than this. My usual English is Canadian (I have read many of vile8r's stories and find his English very similar to mine). I've also picked up some expressions and words from fellow writers here who are Americans or British.

In a gladiator story taking place in 1st century, I have used some Latin lines where I took some liberties to make it sound like a spoken language. E.g. using "mi" instead of the usual "mihi" in the dative case. This story is from my former self on this forum (Bruiser7). I have much leeway there as we simply don't know much about actual spoken Latin so far back in the past! One Latin word I love for sex is "Ita". A Roman woman who got aroused probably said "Ita" a lot. "Ita" means both "yes" and "like this"; so she is basically saying "yes" and "I love it like this" by simply saying/screaming "ITA!" amid her moaning!  >:D

Last but not least, in "Paris syndrome (Rape of a Japanese Tourist)", Roxxon has the Japanese girl screaming "Yamate!" (Stop it!) at her rapists. Roxxon is an awesome writer, one of the very best I've seen here. I had to finish this post by praising her!

Have a great day! Happy writing!

HistBuff
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 03:48:11 AM by HistBuff »

Offline Master Sergeant

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Re: Writing Tropes and Stereotypes in Erotic Writing
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2021, 12:06:07 PM »
My dark Italian Moka is the colour of her ebony velvet skin.  Actually having my caffeine dose for the morning and couldn't resist. :)

"Racism can be viewed as a bi-product of Darwinian thought. You know, the survival of the fittest. It predates Darwinian. It could be as old as when the first distinction about race came about. Whoever won the war, their side was superior."

Somewhere, some time, I'm a free range word browser,  I read that when humanity was evolving there were a number of different types living at the same time sometimes in the same area.  In addition to competition for food, ie land, there was pressure to collect as many wombs as possible to increase the number of your tribe and genotype.  Captive men were killed, sometimes like the Iroquois who publicly tortured them to death as entertainment. Captive women were bred.  This POV exists today in the upper levels of islam, where it has been a common saying for decades that islam  will conquer Europe via the wombs of white women.  Hence a current islamist can say, as was said recently, that his rape of a European woman was his prayer to allah. This was not just about skin colour.  Note that the Chinese and Japanese derogatory racial terms, equivalent to nigger, are Round Eye and Long Nose.  Also note the word for 'enemy' is often the same word as 'stranger'.  An example is the word Apache, which is Pueblo for enemy-stranger as they were roaming raiders preying on the sedentary, agricultural Pueblos.

So negativity toward those who are different from 'our people' is inherent in humans.  Without that attitude, your women are raped and bred and 'your' people vanish.  The idea that we are all humans and all of value is, afaik, a development of the Christian belief that we are all the children of God and very recent.  As a former soldier, I know the primary values in another soldier, regardless of race or gender, is can that person do their job and do they have the guts to stand firm under threat.  This is both somewhat recent and somewhat limited to a particular profession. The question that used to be of primary importance out on the savannahs, is that person of my blood, is assume as we are both Americans.  Ofc, that idea has been under attack for the last few decades in the political drive to fragment us into small mutually hostile clusters that are easy to control, but that is a whole different topic.

Well, I'm running low on Moka so I'll wrap up my meandering.  The human sensitivity to difference is really old and really basic.  The idea of inclusiveness is really new, less than a hundred years new.  I'm on this forum because my writing is usually centered on issues of domination and female subjugation in a fantasy world.  In the last few decades vulgarity in English has been radically detoxified, so in order to convey the horror of assault on a female, were I homosexual it would be on a male, I use the few vocabulary tools left.  Therefore, Mz Scarlett is going to be gangraped by silly numbers of 'Niggers' with biologically unlikely huge penises ejaculating impossible amounts of semen into an anus of medically impossible flexibility.  This is mucking about in some nasty mental corners and has nothing to do with my Black friends, Female friends or Black & Female friends.  Actually, I'm starting to view it as healthy emotional self therapy.  Well, I'm now out of Moka and three flights of A-10s have blasted overhead enroute to the training ranges to the North, so I'll log out.  Ya'll be safe.