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Author Topic: Do we actually live in a "RAPE CULTURE"  (Read 1493 times)
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« on: February 09, 2016, 09:32:32 AM »

So a little quick reading -http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/our-so-called-rape-culture/

I come down on both sides of this for so many reasons. So I'm just curious where everyone else falls.
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2016, 10:52:33 AM »

I think in general I tend to be more or less liberal/centrist in most of my views on political/social issues.

This is more or less the same.

Let's start off by saying that I WAS raped at the age of 18 and so I'm not talking in the abstract. I knew my rapist and had thought he was a friend and even though I'm honest enough to admit that my own behaviour contributed to what happened he still had forcible sex with me against my will over a period from late Friday night through to Monday morning.

And I got pregnant with my eldest child as a result.

So I'm talking from personal experience.

Admittedly, I'm British and I think the article in the link is mainly talking about America so obviously I can only talk from an outsider's perspective in that respect.

I don't believe most Western women live in a 'rape culture' because I think on the whole we broadly live in a culture that's been dominated for the last two or three hundred years by what you might loosely call the 'liberal humanist' tradition.

But that's not the case in many other parts of the world. In Africa, Asia and to a lesser extent South America there is a real culture of pseudo-machismo and frankly rape frequently IS excused in people from those cultures. Hindus and Muslims and to a lesser extent Sikhs are particularly culpable in terms of excusing rape and the same is true of Buddhists in Sri Lanka and Burma. Because many of these people have emigrated to the West they have often brought with them these backward cultural attitudes towards rape.

The behaviour of (overwhelmingly Muslim) immigrants in Germany was appalling; the same thing has happened in Scandinavia; and there are organised gangs of predatory Muslims in Britain who are deliberately seeking out white girls to turn into prostitutes.

So though at the moment I'd say most Western women do NOT live in a 'rape culture' I'd say that many non-Western women DO and that the influx of immigrants who have entirely DIFFERENT attitudes towards rape COULD mean that in the course of the next twenty or thirty years the feminists just MIGHT be RIGHT for a change.
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 11:13:29 PM »

As funny as it sounds, I am a feminist and I definitely do think there is a bit of a rape culture in the USA. Not surprisingly I try extremely hard to keep my "feminist" and "like to be raped" spheres very far apart. LOL
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 11:23:18 PM »

As funny as it sounds, I am a feminist and I definitely do think there is a bit of a rape culture in the USA. Not surprisingly I try extremely hard to keep my "feminist" and "like to be raped" spheres very far apart. LOL

I know the feeling, I actively write rape literature.... as a Women's Studies major.  I get into arguments in my civilly & cultures class where I am debating with guys about how horrible this culture is and how condoning rape the way TV and movies do (by dressing up young girls in suggestive clothes, or having the Disney Channel male characters cast lingering gazes on the CLEARLY underage female characters, and lets not forget Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines," it was like he was trying to write an homage to date rape.) However, despite arguing and fighting the good fight I've more than once envisions some of those guys (or girls) kicking my door in, and.... ummm.... setting me straight.

Its a (blurry) fine line between ravished victim and staunch advocate.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 11:24:40 PM »

No, we do NOT live in a rape culture, we live in a culture that has been perverted to the point where even feminists are willing to shift the blame away from the rapist and to culture.

Blaming culture on rape is like blaming mass shootings on violent movies or blaming car accidents on GTA, it's shifting the blame from the guilty party.
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 11:29:49 PM »

No, we do NOT live in a rape culture, we live in a culture that has been perverted to the point where even feminists are willing to shift the blame away from the rapist and to culture.

Blaming culture on rape is like blaming mass shootings on violent movies or blaming car accidents on GTA, it's shifting the blame from the guilty party.

But I wonder, can it be a mixture of both.  I mean I sometimes wonder if I'm perpetuating bad stereotypes.  By that I mean, I know sometimes when I wear a shirt that has a deep V, I'm not gonna get a lotta eye contact from the opposite sex that day (and lord knows I'm not that blessed in the boob department.)  But there I am, I wont say flaunting but exposing. Am I contributing to this culture. Now, Im not saying I'm asking to get raped, because I'm not but where is that line?! Is there a line?! Should there be a line?!


p.s. -  I realized I just played devil's advocate there a little bit. Sorry about that.
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 11:31:28 PM »

To be more specific I would say we live in a combination of a highly sexually repressed societal culture along paradoxically with a very sexualized media culture that is severely skewed towards sexualizing girls at almost any ages.

I think this combination tends to create what people would say is the "rape culture."
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 11:36:55 PM »

To be more specific I would say we live in a combination of a highly sexually repressed societal culture along paradoxically with a very sexualized media culture that is severely skewed towards sexualizing girls at almost any ages.

I think this combination tends to create what people would say is the "rape culture."

That's fair, and quite eloquently spoken. :) You word very well!

Do you think guys will ever get it on a mass scale? In America, lord knows worldwide women rank slightly below house cat, but I think in America its safe to say we've secured the #2 spot.... for now.
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 11:37:47 PM »

You two have a point, but as a student of history I can assure you that the past 400 years of history has been far less sexualized and has demonized rape far more than any culture in the preceding 5,000 years of recorded history.  To blame culture on rape is, as I said, shifting the blame and, what's worse, it's glorifying and over simplifying the past.
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 11:43:13 PM »

You two have a point, but as a student of history I can assure you that the past 400 years of history has been far less sexualized and has demonized rape far more than any culture in the preceding 5,000 years of recorded history.  To blame culture on rape is, as I said, shifting the blame and, what's worse, it's glorifying and over simplifying the past.

But despite its demonization, it still hasn't actually been a deterrent.  The Law code of Hammurabi would have been better suited as a deterrent for this generation.  Rape would get you castrated, and death at the scene of the crime amongst your family and peers. Instead of being able to hide behind a legal system that excuses behavior under the moniker of an uncontrollable "illness"
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 11:45:24 PM »


That's fair, and quite eloquently spoken. :) You word very well!

Do you think guys will ever get it on a mass scale? In America, lord knows worldwide women rank slightly below house cat, but I think in America its safe to say we've secured the #2 spot.... for now.

Dunno, would take more than just educating the boys. If we could raise the next generation in a sex positive way and eliminating most of the buckets full of useless shame an average girl or boy generates while at the same time not being... icky, then I think that would work.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 11:51:46 PM »

Believe what you want, I'm still going to buck the tiger and state that blaming culture is shifting the blame from the rapist.  It's like blaming miniskirts. 

NO, it wasn't Paul's fault, the culture made him rape Jessica.
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 11:56:16 PM »

Believe what you want, I'm still going to buck the tiger and state that blaming culture is shifting the blame from the rapist.  It's like blaming miniskirts. 

NO, it wasn't Paul's fault, the culture made him rape Jessica.

I don't want you to think I'm shifting blame from the rapist. I believe each of us are responsible wholly for our actions.  But If I put the average person in a hostile environment that rewarded them (even if minimally) for violent behavior, it'd take about 5 days before the average person would start randomly punching people just because they knew there would be no recourse. It's a combination of environment + personal choice + lack of deterrent = Men > Women so why not rape
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 01:43:39 AM »

It's still essentially saying that, because of the culture, he's not as responsible for his own actions as he really is.

Look at it this way: Violent movies don't breed violent people, they just breed Tarantino fans. 
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 04:16:13 AM »

<feminist>
I'd point out that for much of history women were more or less chattel to the male members of their family (their father while growing up and later their husband), and never really were alone or had their own agency or goals independent of their husbands. Therefore, the fact that the historical penalty for rape was quite severe you have to look at it from the perspective of property rights and emasculation. What I'm saying is for most of the history of the world I doubt very highly there was such a thing as called 'date rape', and its historical fact that spousal rape is a very recent idea.

So the only way a woman COULD realistically be raped was if someone intruded onto either a man's home or other place that he considered to be protected and safe enough for his daughter or wife to be unescorted (possibly school once girls started going to school) and then do what amounts to ruining (or at the very least diminishing the value of) his personal property (his daughter or wife) in the very place where he as a masculine provider figure is supposed to be protecting or providing a safe place for.

It's essentially the ancient equivalent of both stealing and calling you a faggot at the same time, so I'm surprised mandatory torture is not prescribed prior to the execution.

In many historical cultures (Rome, etc) this also explains while it is still illegal it is not culturally as big a deal for sex-workers or prostitutes to be raped (see boys will be boys for the modern equivalent), and I would imagine that any situation where today someone old and stupid might try to fraction out blame in percentages as if it was a car accident that most historical societies would just throw up their hands and be like 'WHORE!' and not really care anymore.
</feminist>
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