Ravishment University
Student Union (MEMBERS ONLY) => Movie / TV show Discussion => Topic started by: GEMINIGUY on June 03, 2016, 02:36:22 AM
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So a while back an RU member mentioned the novel for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, so I decided to dig it out and start reading it again.
And it got me thinking. Considering what a powerful Sith Darth Vader was, did you realize how stupid he actually was?
For starters, at one point in the novel Darth Vader says "This will be a day long remembered. It already has been witness to the final extinction of the Jedi."
Really? That is one of the stupidest thing someone who wields the Force could possible say! He supposedly know how to use the Force, and supposedly is greater than the Jedi. But Jedi like Yoda sensed things in the Force, and if Darth Vader was truly as powerful as he claimed to be, he'd have sensed three things:
1) Declaring the final extinction of the Jedi was premature. VERY premature.
2) He was SO close to Princess Leia. Why didn't he realize she was his daughter?
3) On the Death Star he sensed Obi-Wan Kenobi. Why didn't he sense his own son who was also on board the Death Star?
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Not to mention Luke was already using the Force, Darth Vader SHOULD have sensed another user.
All of this tells me Darth Vader was very stupid, and/or didn't really know how to use the Force as well as he should have been able to IF he was as powerful as he claimed.
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1) Declaring the final extinction of the Jedi was premature. VERY premature.
2) He was SO close to Princess Leia. Why didn't he realize she was his daughter?
3) On the Death Star he sensed Obi-Wan Kenobi. Why didn't he sense his own son who was also on board the Death Star?
I acknowledge your points, but:
1: A Jedi requires training. If Kenobi was dead then there would be no other Jedi (Yoda hadn't been introduced at this point).
2: Maybe he did. So what? While she might well have had Jedi potential, she was his prisoner - and thus had no chance of realising her potential (unless a plucky band of rag-tag adventurers defied the odds to... etc.). Additionally, SHE had no idea that she was his daughter - would would have tipped HIM off? Does Force ability come with DNA recognition?
3: See above. Note also that Kenobi was a powerful Jedi - who Vader had trained under and fought with! Of course Vader would sense Kenobi. A massive (and familiar) Force presence. At the time Luke was a novice - barely aware of his own potential. He wouldn't have been even a blip on the radar.
4: How many times did Luke jerk off thinking about Leia before he discovered she was his sister? That had to have been an awkward moment...
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I have always believed that Lucas altered the story as he went along. It really doubt he intended for Leia to be a Skywalker when you watch the original trailers and promotions. They were all geared toward Luke being the valiant prince that was falling for the princess. "Who is she? She's beautiful." Then Luke getting jealous when Han suggests he and the Princess could be a 'thing'. Not something that someone intending to make it all one big family affair would have done. I think the story just evolved and in expanding the universe he found a way to alter the characters origins etc without interfering with the continuity.
I don't even think that it was originally intended that "Darth" be a title for a Lord of the Sith. Otherwise, with all the Darths throughout history how on earth would Obi-wan be training a "a young jedi name Darth Vader...betrayed and murdered your father?" I think that "Darth" was just supposed to be the first name of the guy that killed Luke's father. I believe It wasn't until later when Lucas decided to make Vader into Luke's father and make Obi-wan's explanation into a sly play on words "from a certain point of view". Obi-wan even said "...only a master of evil, Darth" It doesn't make sense that Obi-wan would address him by a formal title in that situation.
But it's George's universe and he can do whatever he wants with it!!
There will always be answers to the questions about the way things happened in EP IV...but its still fun to ask!
The Emperor was described differently in the prologue of the Star Wars novelization and it sounded like he was being influenced by the Sith but not that he was one...
At some point he must have stopped playing the dual role and everyone would have known he was a Sith, therefore on the Death Star everyone should have known that Vader was NOT all that was left of "that ancient religion." Considering how massive the wars were between the Sith and the Jedi and how powerful they were it seems odd to say to one of the most well known Siths that had a 'sad devotion' to it.
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But it's George's universe and he can do whatever he wants with it!!
Not anymore it isn't.
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I have always believed that Lucas altered the story as he went along. It really doubt he intended for Leia to be a Skywalker when you watch the original trailers and promotions. They were all geared toward Luke being the valiant prince that was falling for the princess. "Who is she? She's beautiful." Then Luke getting jealous when Han suggests he and the Princess could be a 'thing'. Not something that someone intending to make it all one big family affair would have done. I think the story just evolved and in expanding the universe he found a way to alter the characters origins etc without interfering with the continuity.
I don't even think that it was originally intended that "Darth" be a title for a Lord of the Sith. Otherwise, with all the Darths throughout history how on earth would Obi-wan be training a "a young jedi name Darth Vader...betrayed and murdered your father?" I think that "Darth" was just supposed to be the first name of the guy that killed Luke's father. I believe It wasn't until later when Lucas decided to make Vader into Luke's father and make Obi-wan's explanation into a sly play on words "from a certain point of view". Obi-wan even said "...only a master of evil, Darth" It doesn't make sense that Obi-wan would address him by a formal title in that situation.
But it's George's universe and he can do whatever he wants with it!!
There will always be answers to the questions about the way things happened in EP IV...but its still fun to ask!
The Emperor was described differently in the prologue of the Star Wars novelization and it sounded like he was being influenced by the Sith but not that he was one...
At some point he must have stopped playing the dual role and everyone would have known he was a Sith, therefore on the Death Star everyone should have known that Vader was NOT all that was left of "that ancient religion." Considering how massive the wars were between the Sith and the Jedi and how powerful they were it seems odd to say to one of the most well known Siths that had a 'sad devotion' to it.
Yeah, good points. Lucas was making it up as he went along.
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Great posts, everyone!
I still say Darth Vader was stupid and not as well-trained in the Force as he claimed to be. At least that's how Episode VI portrays him. In Episode II and III we see how powerful he was, but arrogant as well. Maybe in his arrogance in Episode IV he wasn't "trusting his feelings" because he wasn't even considering them. I think he should have sensed something about Leia and Luke, something familiar. And Luke may have been new at using the Force, still if Darth Vader put the Force to better use he'd have sensed the Force was being used by another and that the Jedi were not extinct. He just seemed to do things without thinking.
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Darth Vader was the most powerfull Jedi....according to the micro or whatever that blood test said.
He had the highest concetration of that stuff thus making him more capable of using the force...if trainned properly.
His training never really ended as he was pushing to become a Jedi Master at a very young age something the Jedi Counsil agreed to but not really wanting to.More over it is claimed that the power of the dark side is stronger thus clouding the jedi counsil's mind from the plot all those years to lead to their extrermination.
Also as Yoda says in Episode 3,the Jedi were foolish to let that happen under their watch.Although you cant really tell how many the Jedi were,there werent more that a few hundreds and all those years of peace without actual fighting has made them weak.
The Jedi are not all knowing and all powerful.
As for the story of Sktwalkers its true that its changed as the movies were being filmed.And this is why the new trilogy (episodes 1-2-3) dont actually make a lot of sense.It took the empire 18 yrs to complete Death Star 1....(from episode 3 to episode 4) which was supposedly their only super weapon....but it only took them a few months to start building Death Star 2 (episode 3 to episode 6) .
Also balance in the force doesnt it mean...to be the same....so 1 Jedi...1 sith!
I guess the jedi wanted it all!
Many of the written books are way better than the actual movies,providing a lot more history to the Star Wars history.I've played Jedi Knight The Old Republic which is supposedly 3000 years before the movies.
BTW i suggest that you read THE DARK EMPIRE....good stuff about what happens after Episode 6,which was the actual story until Disney bought the rights and decided to change the history.
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Darth Vader was the most powerfull Jedi....according to the micro or whatever that blood test said.
He had the highest concetration of that stuff thus making him more capable of using the force...if trainned properly.
His training never really ended as he was pushing to become a Jedi Master at a very young age something the Jedi Counsil agreed to but not really wanting to.More over it is claimed that the power of the dark side is stronger thus clouding the jedi counsil's mind from the plot all those years to lead to their extrermination.
^^ True - he had the highest KNOWN mitochlorian count... although we don't know what count Palpatine had - and he was unquestionably badass. But it's not true that his training never ended - when he became Palpatine's apprentice he would have continued to learn. It's also not true that the Dark side was stronger. Yoda said it is "quicker, easier, more seductive..." - or something like that (gimmie a break, it's been at least 15 years and I'm drunk.)
If one accepts that the Dark side was geared toward destruction then it's easy to believe it was more powerful - it's easier to destroy than to create or protect - but that does not mean that the Light side was less powerful. The Force was simply a power that existed - the use was up to the user. You can use a shovel to dig a hole - or to beat someone over the head with. The tool is the same - the outcome is different - althought hitting someone in the head is p[robably easier than digging a hole.
Also as Yoda says in Episode 3,the Jedi were foolish to let that happen under their watch.Although you cant really tell how many the Jedi were,there werent more that a few hundreds and all those years of peace without actual fighting has made them weak.
The Jedi are not all knowing and all powerful.
That's fair. Yoda said "thjere are always two Sith" - Master and Apprentice. Since those two could assfuck the Jedi, one an assume the Jedi had some shortcomings.
Also balance in the force doesnt it mean...to be the same....so 1 Jedi...1 sith!
I guess the jedi wanted it all!
Yeah - "balance" doesn't mean "good guys win". Realistically it would mean that the light and dark sides have equal power.
I made the point some years ago that Vader DID actually restore balance to the force as prophesied - when he killed the Emperor.
THink about it - while Palpatine was around he was the most powerful Force user - even Yoda (strongest Jedi we've seen) couldn't beat him. When Yoda trained Luke on Dagobah Yoda was close to nine hundred (see ROTJ) - which means that back in episode three (when Luke and Leia were conceived) he was still over 800.
EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS TO LEARN JEDI SHIT? Yoda should have been crapping sunshine. So given Palpatines's superiority we can say there was an "imbalance" in the force - which Vader corrected by killing him. (Although I don't know where the "balance" came in if Luke was the last Jedi standing). True balance wouold mean both sides weequal - meaning that neither had any real influence.
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I'm into the Star Wars novels and have read at least a dozen. One of my favorites is Allegiance, set after Episode IV: A New Hope. A young Mara Jade is in there but her and a young Luke never cross paths.
You say Jedi aren't all-knowing. That isn't necessarily true. Sure, the Sith can cloud things so the Jedi can't sense them, Yodi said that themselves.
But the Jedi do know much if they put the Force to good use. Or in the case of Anakin and Luke, have visions - Anakin had visions of his mother dying, then Padme, Luke had a vision of Han and Leia dying.
I don't agree that Episodes I-III are confusing. Sure, some things don't jive with say Episode IV, but George Lucas weaved a good story throughout the prequel trilogy. Already knowing that Palpatine was the Sith Lord was kind of annoying, but getting to see him slowly maneuver events leading to him becoming Emperor was brilliant.
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Actually Yoda could have beaten the Emperor but for some unknown reason (probably because it would ruin the story) he didnt finish the job in the Senate.It was obvious that he could have won!
According to the ''actual'' history,not all Jedi Knights died during the clone wars,and more over not all Jedi in training did,they went in hiding just like Obi Wan,but since noone contacted each other everyone assumed they were all killed or each one was the last one.Also there were more Sith in training by Duku and The Emperor and General Grivous,that were used as Imperial Generals the later years as seen in the Clone Wars series.
There are more and when Episode 6 ends,Luke isnt the only one left.As we seen in the new Episode 7 he tried to find whoever was left and restart the Jedi order,something we saw went bad with the Emo Sith he created that fell to the control of that unknown super evil and killed all the Jedi the Luke had started training.
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Actually Yoda could have beaten the Emperor but for some unknown reason (probably because it would ruin the story) he didnt finish the job in the Senate.It was obvious that he could have won!
Obvious when? When he crawled away through a maintenance duct? Or when he said: "Assfucked I am. Without lube I took it."
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Actually Yoda could have beaten the Emperor but for some unknown reason (probably because it would ruin the story) he didnt finish the job in the Senate.It was obvious that he could have won!
Obvious when? When he crawled away through a maintenance duct? Or when he said: "Assfucked I am. Without lube I took it."
03:50....the look on Palpatines face is that he knows he has lost!But for some unknown reason Yoda decided to leave.
You know why?
Because if he had won....no more Emperor....so how could he have appeared on episodes 4-6!
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03:50....the look on Palpatines face is that he knows he has lost!But for some unknown reason Yoda decided to leave.
You know why?
Because if he had won....no more Emperor....so how could he have appeared on episodes 4-6!
No.
It's true that Palpatine was shocked when Yoda managed to repel his force-lightning - but the resultant explosion threw both of them back. Palpatine managed to cling to something whereas Yoda took a hard fall - he crawled away because he was too injured to continue the fight. But why did Yoda fall on the ground? We've seen Anakin jump fearlessly from a skycar and land without injury on another (and he was an apprentice at the time). We've seen Palpatine, Dooku and Vader use the force to throw massive objects. We've also seen Yoda drag Luke's TIE fighter out of a swamp. There is no reason that Yoda couldn't have cushioned his fall - unless he was too hurt by the force-blast to use his powers effectively. For that matter, if a force-assisted jump can take you 20 feet in the air (Kenobi, Ep 1) then Jedi friggin' Master Yoda should have at least been able to pull himself to safety using a couple of fingers instead of losing his grip.
While Yoda might well have been the more powerful of the two, his loss wasn't due to throwing in the towel - it was because he was injured by the blast after repulsing Palpatine's force-lightning, and was too weak to save himself from falling. Palpatine likely suffered similar injury from the blast but was able to get a grip on something and thus didn't suffer the same fall.
Side note: Why did Palpatine turn old and ugly when using his lightning against Windu? Some say it is because Windu's sabre was reflecting the energy, but I don't buy that. Palpatine could have used force-repulsion to stop Windu hitting him instead of continuing the lightning that was being deflected back at him. Personally I think he aged because using the lightning meant channeling the Dark Side of the force directly - something that living creatures aren't supposed to do.
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And BTW: Palpatine carves through 3 Jedi in this scene - only Windu survives long enough to challenge him. Either Windu was a complete moron who chose three cripples to accompany him - or else Palpatine was REALLY FUCKING GOOD!
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Palpatine was disfigured by the lighting repelled from Windu's lightsaber.Thats force was draining other people's life energy,so basically he was draining himself!Turning old and disfigured.You see what he says when Anakin cuts Windu's hands and Palpatine manages to strike him?
''Power,unlimited power'' meaning when he uses this he takes the power of the other one!
Yoda's defeat is more...mental than physical.He feels responsible that he failed to see the whole plot to kill the Jedi and destroy the Senate,and when he fails to defeat the Emperor with the first go,he retreats and goes into hiding!
As i said...if he had stayed and fought...then the next episodes wouldnt have happened like that.
And BTW: Palpatine carves through 3 Jedi in this scene - only Windu survives long enough to challenge him. Either Windu was a complete moron who chose three cripples to accompany him - or else Palpatine was REALLY FUCKING GOOD!
Οr in reality Jedi werent as powerful as you want to believe.
Just like Qui Gon said when he met Anakin...Jedi arent invincible!You noticed how easily they were killed by the clones!Only just a few were really good!
Each Jedi had a different training in the force.Not all could jump,run,push,pull,do the mind trick and stuff.Each had his own use of the force.
Windu easily overpowered Palpatine and he would have killed him if the prick Anakin hadnt interfered!
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Palpatine was disfigured by the lighting repelled from Windu's lightsaber.Thats force was draining other people's life energy,so basically he was draining himself!Turning old and disfigured.You see what he says when Anakin cuts Windu's hands and Palpatine manages to strike him?
''Power,unlimited power'' meaning when he uses this he takes the power of the other one!
Um... link to source that says Palpatine was draining somneone else's loife energy?
Yoda's defeat is more...mental than physical.He feels responsible that he failed to see the whole plot to kill the Jedi and destroy the Senate,and when he fails to defeat the Emperor with the first go,he retreats and goes into hiding!
Except his failure to see the plot happened first - and given the stakes his battle with Palpatine should have been a death-match. Since Palpatine and Anakin were the only two Sith, Yoda could have easily defeated Anakin after killing Palpatine. If Yoda retreated volantarily then he basically handed the Republic (and with it, billions of lives) into Palpatine's control. Running off and sulking does not seem like the actions of a Jedi Master.
As i said...if he had stayed and fought...then the next episodes wouldnt have happened like that.
If Yoda had WON the next episodes would not have hjappened... nbut I see no clear evidence tat he had the advantage.
And BTW: Palpatine carves through 3 Jedi in this scene - only Windu survives long enough to challenge him. Either Windu was a complete moron who chose three cripples to accompany him - or else Palpatine was REALLY FUCKING GOOD!
Οr in reality Jedi werent as powerful as you want to believe.
Just like Qui Gon said when he met Anakin...Jedi arent invincible!You noticed how easily they were killed by the clones!Only just a few were really good!
Each Jedi had a different training in the force.Not all could jump,run,push,pull,do the mind trick and stuff.Each had his own use of the force.
Windu easily overpowered Palpatine and he would have killed him if the prick Anakin hadnt interfered!
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No, the Jedi weren't all-powerful - and getting shot in the back by your allies tends to kill most people. But consider this: if there were only ever two Sith (probably because you cannot trut another sociopath) then the master would never reveal himself unless he had the upper hand... and even the apprentice would not be riskled in battle unless he wa seriously powerful. If Palpatine had spent years trining his apprentice would he want to ee him dir for no gain? And lose all that time? Darth Maual was hardcore - he killed Jigon-quin and damn near killed kenobi. So thge Sith never moved openly unless they had a clear advantag - whilke the Jedi (with manyu people under training) could afford to lose a few. Pluis the Jedi had to maintain a viosible presence while the Sith moved in the shadows.
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Count Duku has joined the Sith,like Darth Vader.Are they Sith or Sith allies?
General Grivus kills Jedi and takes their lightsabers.Is he also a Sith since he uses lightsabers?
During the Clone Wars (the series) more Sith reveal themselves,so the Sith are not just 2.....
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Count Dooku WAS the Sith Apprentice that replaced Darth Maul. Dooku had a Darth name as well. But the Emperor had wanted Anakin as his Apprentice, which was why he wanted Anakin to kill Dooku.
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Count Dooku WAS the Sith Apprentice that replaced Darth Maul. Dooku had a Darth name as well. But the Emperor had wanted Anakin as his Apprentice, which was why he wanted Anakin to kill Dooku.
So there isnt just one! ;)
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Isn't just one what? Sith Apprentice? No, only one. Palpatine didn't woo Anakin until AFTER he killed Count Dooku.
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I am thinking that the 2nd Death Star was being built at the same time as the first one. It could only make sense. Perhaps the Empire has plans for several Death Stars. There's NO way something that big could be built I such a short period of time. If Lucas wanted us to believe that, he was an idiot. It's why the prequels sucked so bad. They were all directed by him! The best Star Wars movies ( with the exception of Ep IV ) were done by other directors. George Lucas might have been a visionary but he was a suck-ass movie director.
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Who says the two death stars took different times to build?
First of all, the second death star wasn't even finished. They rushed just to get the main weapon built, the rest was still under construction.
Second, each movie in the original trilogy is separated by three years. The battle of Endor takes place 6 years after battle of Yavin. So they had 6 years to build it, not just a couple months. If the first death star took 20 years, maybe the second death star was only 30% complete?
Third, the first death star would have been constructed slowly, in complete secrecy. No one had any idea such a thing was being built, so it was probably not being built as fast as possible. That being said, by the time of the second one, the cat is already out of the bag, so the empire put a lot more resources into rushing that one. Not to 100%, but if they built it say twice as fast, they could get to 60%, which seems pretty close, given how it looks.
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Sorry, you have your timeline wrong. Episode II is ten years after Episode I. Episode III is three years after Episode II. Episode IV is eighteen years after Episode III. Episode V is three years after Episode IV. And Episode VI was only one year after Episode V.
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Who says the two death stars took different times to build?
First of all, the second death star wasn't even finished. They rushed just to get the main weapon built, the rest was still under construction.
Second, each movie in the original trilogy is separated by three years. The battle of Endor takes place 6 years after battle of Yavin. So they had 6 years to build it, not just a couple months. If the first death star took 20 years, maybe the second death star was only 30% complete?
Third, the first death star would have been constructed slowly, in complete secrecy. No one had any idea such a thing was being built, so it was probably not being built as fast as possible. That being said, by the time of the second one, the cat is already out of the bag, so the empire put a lot more resources into rushing that one. Not to 100%, but if they built it say twice as fast, they could get to 60%, which seems pretty close, given how it looks.
GG is probably right about the timeline - but you do have a good point about building the Death Star. The first was started secretly and would have taken a while to build. The second required no particular secrecy (the rebels were on the run) and Palpatine had the FULL RESOURCES of the Empire at his disposal. Think about that... thousands of planets, millions of workers... you could have pre-fab sections made all over the galaxy and then shipped in for assembly. The second Death Star could have been built a lot faster than the first.
Aside from that, I believe Palpatine deliberately leaked the info regarding the second Death Star. He knew the rebels would have to attack it - especially if they knew he was on board. The whole thing was a setup. He wanted them to commit everything they had to a final, desperate assault - which he would then crush. He did tell Like that DS2 was "fully operational". The weapons systems certainly were.
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I finished reading A New Hope, and am partway into The Empire Strikes back. I still say Darth Vader is an idiot.
Now he KNEW Luke was with the Rebels on Hoth. BUT, he didn't realize look left in his X-Wing for Dagobah. He was SO certain look was on the Millenium Falcon with Han, Chewie and Leia. What an idiot!
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I finished reading A New Hope, and am partway into The Empire Strikes back. I still say Darth Vader is an idiot.
Now he KNEW Luke was with the Rebels on Hoth. BUT, he didn't realize look left in his X-Wing for Dagobah. He was SO certain look was on the Millenium Falcon with Han, Chewie and Leia. What an idiot!
They are not....like Highlander to feel the others all the time you know! :emot_laughing.gif:
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Forget the Highlander! If Darth Vader was as adept with the Force as he claimed to be, he'd have known Luke wasn't on the Milleniun Falcon.
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They are not....like Highlander to feel the others all the time you know! :emot_laughing.gif:
Weak with the grammar your post is...
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Forget the Highlander! If Darth Vader was as adept with the Force as he claimed to be, he'd have known Luke wasn't on the Milleniun Falcon.
He's not all knowing....noone claimed that...ever!
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This isn't about being "all knowing". When it comes to the Force, Darth Vader SHOULD have known exactly where Luke was. Hell, he can read minds, he proved that in Return Of The Jedi, he read looks mind to find out he had a sister.
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THIS part I don't get.......why did Darth Vader NOT know Spock was still alive after.......oops, wrong movie! * Vile8r screams as he is fallen upon by hordes of ravenous Star Wars fans and thrown into the Great Pit of Carkoon.*
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This isn't about being "all knowing". When it comes to the Force, Darth Vader SHOULD have known exactly where Luke was. Hell, he can read minds, he proved that in Return Of The Jedi, he read looks mind to find out he had a sister.
He sensed he has a sister...he didnt read his mind.Just like he sensed Obi Wan on the Death Star,but he couldnt really tell that it was him 100%.
There was a...disturbance in the force!
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You can't "sense" that. Yes, Darth Vader told Luke that his feelings betray him, but there was no way he'd figure out Luke had a sister from that. Darth Vader read Luke's mind. That is probably the one moment in the original Star Wars trilogy where he really tapped into the Force.
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The one great achievement of George Lucas - people are STILL talking about his movies forty-odd years after they were screened.
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The one great achievement of George Lucas - people are STILL talking about his movies forty-odd years after they were screened.
Well, you DO make a good point there, Algore!
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They weren't THAT odd, were they? :P
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You see where Anton Yelchin was killed in a car accident at his house? He played Chekov in the new films
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What?!? He's really dead?!?
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Yes, killed in a freak accident at his house
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/19/entertainment/actor-anton-yelchin-killed/index.html
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It seems Star Trek Beyond is coming out July 22nd, so it was finished before he passed.
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Watched "The Force Awakens". I wasn't expecting much but - LAME!
A carbon copy of the first movie, a Sith Lord who throws tantrums like a little kid and an Empire that (despite two monumental defeats) hasn't learned not to make battle stations with self-destruct buttons.
Kylo Ren's one great talent was removing his mask and not having hat hair.
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"Kylo Ren's one great talent was removing his mask and not having hat hair."
OH my Lord! I am laughing SO hard! Al Gore, you always put the neatest perspective on things! :emot_rotf.gif:
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Of course he and Nyx are arguing about it in public, since she LOVED Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens.
Episode VII is NOTHING like previous Star Wars movies. It is the most fast paced out of all of them, the adventure is so captivating you don't have time to focus on the characters and which one(s) is/are your favorite.
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I meant arguing in private, not public.
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I have always been a Han Solo fan myself. Harrison Ford played it perfectly.
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I have always been a Han Solo fan myself. Harrison Ford played it perfectly.
Ford definitely got the best role in this movie. Now Solo is dead, Ford doesn't have to appear in the sequels. ;D
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Episode VII is NOTHING like previous Star Wars movies. It is the most fast paced out of all of them, the adventure is so captivating you don't have time to focus on the characters and which one(s) is/are your favorite.
Oh really?
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Study-Shows-Just-How-Similar-Force-Awakens-Hope-116617.html
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/watch-a-stunning-side-by-side-comparison-of-star-154726328.html
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So a while back an RU member mentioned the novel for Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, so I decided to dig it out and start reading it again.
And it got me thinking. Considering what a powerful Sith Darth Vader was, did you realize how stupid he actually was?
For starters, at one point in the novel Darth Vader says "This will be a day long remembered. It already has been witness to the final extinction of the Jedi."
Really? That is one of the stupidest thing someone who wields the Force could possible say! He supposedly know how to use the Force, and supposedly is greater than the Jedi. But Jedi like Yoda sensed things in the Force, and if Darth Vader was truly as powerful as he claimed to be, he'd have sensed three things:
1) Declaring the final extinction of the Jedi was premature. VERY premature.
2) He was SO close to Princess Leia. Why didn't he realize she was his daughter?
3) On the Death Star he sensed Obi-Wan Kenobi. Why didn't he sense his own son who was also on board the Death Star?
1. The novel might have contained that Darth Vader quote, but in the movie he says something to the effect of "It has already seen the death of Obi Wan Kenobi, and soon it will see the final destruction of the Republic." Both were essentially accurate.
2. Even Sith have blind spots. He couldn't sense his offspring were alive after they were born, he didn't know how many he almost had. He had no real connection to either of them except in a vague, painfully nostalgic 'what might have been' sense.
3. Unlike his kids, he knew Obi-Wan quite well, and had a huge grudge against him over that whole limb chopping and left to burn business. The real question is why didn't he sense Obi-Wan from orbit above Tatooine?
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3. Unlike his kids, he knew Obi-Wan quite well, and had a huge grudge against him over that whole limb chopping and left to burn business. The real question is why didn't he sense Obi-Wan from orbit above Tatooine?
Maybe the Force has limits?
I'm going to suggest that Obi-Wan was keeping a low profile - both literally and force-wise. By keeping to himself and not using his powers he avoided detection. As did Yoda - the most powerful Jedi we have seen. They stayed hidden in remote locations - waiting for the next generation of Jedi (Luke and Leia) to reach maturity. Had they revealed themselves earlier they would have been hunted down and killed.
It is clear even in Ep1 that Kenobi knew about Luke and his heritage. But he made no contact with him - Kenobi waited for the right moment. Tatooine had a significant Empire presence and it would have been foolhardy to attract attention.
So why did Vader detect Kenobi once he was aboard the Death Star? Probably because Kenobi was using force ability - in subtle ways. How lucky did Luke and friends get? How many times should they have been blasted/captured etc?
Kenobi himself (on observing the damage done to the Jawa's sandcrawler) says "only Imperial storm troopers are so precise!"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
"Storm trooper aim" is now a standing joke in movie legend - but why? Surely the empire had some kind of training program? Weren't these their crack troops?
I submit that the storm troopers were actually very good - but Kenobi was using his Jedi power to throw their aim off. We saw how he directly influenced a troopper ("These aren't the droids you are looking for") - and tells Luke "simple minds are easily manipulated". Remember how R2D2 and C3p0 walked across a corridor that was filled with blaster fire without getting a scratch?
The whole rescue-the hot-chick/escape-from-the-Death-Star was so utterly implausible that it could only happen if a powerful Jedi Master was tipping the scales - not by direct combat but by subtle influence. Kenobi was not seen to use any Force powers while aboard the Death Star - but Vader sensed him anyway. Kenobi WAS using his power - but trying to sneak under the radar.
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Of course Kenobi knew about Luke and his heritage! At the end of Ep.3, Revenge Of The Sith, the infant Luke is taken to live with Owen and Beru Lars on Tatooine, and Obi-Wan says, "I will go there and watch over him!" Ben/Obi-wan was keeping an eye on Luke Skywalker the whole time he was growing up. It was not mere fortuitness that Ben Kenobi happened to come along and rescue Luke from the Tusken Raiders. It was something that was destined to happen eventually.
And yes the Force does have limitations. If you remember in Return Of The Jedi, Jabba the Hutt tells Luke, "Your Jedi mind tricks do not work on me," and I can't remember where, if it's in Revenge Of The Sith, or maybe it's in the novelization, it's mentioned somewhere that the reason Yoda picks Dagobah as his personal exile, is that the planet is like a dead zone for the Force. He couldn't be detected there. Otherwise I'm sure over the years, either the Emperor or Darth Vader would have been able to detect his presence too.
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It is known that Vader had a soft spot for his son Luke.
Maybe this caused a subconscious blind spot at times, causing Luke to go unnoticed.
Why did the Princess never show signs of having the force?
Even untrained you would think something would manifest.
Especially after she became aware that she should have it.
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It is known that Vader had a soft spot for his son Luke.
Maybe this caused a subconscious blind spot at times, causing Luke to go unnoticed.
Why did the Princess never show signs of having the force?
Even untrained you would think something would manifest.
Especially after she became aware that she should have it.
I got the impression that Leia was not nearly as force sensitive as Luke. The Force Awakens seems to confirm this, as it is Luke that everyone is seeking in order to put things right with the force. Leia is right there, but no one cares.
As for Vader, clearly his feelings for his family are what ruled his destiny. It was his emotions for them that made him a Sith, and later made him turn away from the Sith. Darth Vader is the ultimate defender of family values. And speaking of blind spots, if the emperor wasn't having so much fun torturing Luke, he might have noticed that his supreme Sith apprentice was about to go Medieval 180 on his ass. Foresee that, Palpatine!
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It is known that Vader had a soft spot for his son Luke.
Maybe this caused a subconscious blind spot at times, causing Luke to go unnoticed.
Why did the Princess never show signs of having the force?
Even untrained you would think something would manifest.
Especially after she became aware that she should have it.
I got the impression that Leia was not nearly as force sensitive as Luke. The Force Awakens seems to confirm this, as it is Luke that everyone is seeking in order to put things right with the force. Leia is right there, but no one cares.
As for Vader, clearly his feelings for his family are what ruled his destiny. It was his emotions for them that made him a Sith, and later made him turn away from the Sith. Darth Vader is the ultimate defender of family values. And speaking of blind spots, if the emperor wasn't having so much fun torturing Luke, he might have noticed that his supreme Sith apprentice was about to go Medieval 180 on his ass. Foresee that, Palpatine!
Thus fulfilling the original prophecy.
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Of course Vader didn't actually KNOW about Luke. He KNEW Padme had been pregnant, but didn't even know it was with twins.
Of course Palpatine wanted Anakin all to himself, to isolate him, making his rage, anguish & hate complete. So when Luke showed up on the Death Star to rescue Leia, Vader hadn't been looking for his son all those years, nor expected him to show up there, but with the Force he SHOULD have sensed something still...
Anyway, once he got the lowdown on the young man training to be a Jedi, of course he was going to keep a closer eye on him. At the end of The Empire Strikes Back, they were both able to sense each other through the Force. In Return Of The Jedi Luke could sense Vader's nearness on the moon of Endor.
Jumping ahead to The Force Awakens, you can see that Leia WAS Force sensitive, she FELT Han's death, it hit her hard. Like when all the younglings were murdered by Anakin as Jedi all over the galaxy were being killed by the clone troopers, Yoda sensed it & was hit very hard.
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A couple other things not mentioned:
1) In Ep. 4, during the Battle of the Death Star, Vader makes the remark, "The Force is strong in this one," as he pursues Luke down the Death Star trench. That was because, Luke was trying to use the Force! Therefore, it opened a channel to Vader's own Force perceptions. "Hmmm, what is this? Some simple X-Wing pilot trying to use the Force! What's up with that?"
2) In Ep. 5, as Luke hangs on for dear life at the bottom of Cloud City, he calls for Leia. Princess Leia, in the Millenium Falcon, suddenly senses Luke is in danger, and she tells Lando to turn the Falcon around, they have to go get Luke. Now how did she get that feeling? That was an early foreshadowing, that there was something more between Luke and Leia than met the eye, and was not simply a woman's intuition!
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2) In Ep. 5, as Luke hangs on for dear life at the bottom of Cloud City, he calls for Leia. Princess Leia, in the Millenium Falcon, suddenly senses Luke is in danger, and she tells Lando to turn the Falcon around, they have to go get Luke. Now how did she get that feeling? That was an early foreshadowing, that there was something more between Luke and Leia than met the eye, and was not simply a woman's intuition!
There was more foreshadowing in Empire. When Luke took off to rescue the gang, the Obi-Wan ghost says something like "That boy is our last hope." Yoda replied, as the scene faded to black, "No, there is another." Obviously he meant Leia. Probably once Lucas and all decided to make Vader Luke's father, they came up with another twist to be revealed later. At the time, I figured it was the strength of Luke's power over the force that allowed him to contact Leia, particularly as reaching out to the Obi-Wan force ghost wasn't working at all.
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2) In Ep. 5, as Luke hangs on for dear life at the bottom of Cloud City, he calls for Leia. Princess Leia, in the Millenium Falcon, suddenly senses Luke is in danger, and she tells Lando to turn the Falcon around, they have to go get Luke. Now how did she get that feeling? That was an early foreshadowing, that there was something more between Luke and Leia than met the eye, and was not simply a woman's intuition!
There was more foreshadowing in Empire. When Luke took off to rescue the gang, the Obi-Wan ghost says something like "That boy is our last hope." Yoda replied, as the scene faded to black, "No, there is another." Obviously he meant Leia. Probably once Lucas and all decided to make Vader Luke's father, they came up with another twist to be revealed later. At the time, I figured it was the strength of Luke's power over the force that allowed him to contact Leia, particularly as reaching out to the Obi-Wan force ghost wasn't working at all.
Yes there was that part too, when Yoda alludes to there being "another". And you're right, Luke could have simply used the power of the Force to send a help message to Leia, but I think that Leia's dormant Force powers, enabled her to receive that message easier than someone who wouldn't have had them.
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2) In Ep. 5, as Luke hangs on for dear life at the bottom of Cloud City, he calls for Leia. Princess Leia, in the Millenium Falcon, suddenly senses Luke is in danger, and she tells Lando to turn the Falcon around, they have to go get Luke. Now how did she get that feeling? That was an early foreshadowing, that there was something more between Luke and Leia than met the eye, and was not simply a woman's intuition!
There was more foreshadowing in Empire. When Luke took off to rescue the gang, the Obi-Wan ghost says something like "That boy is our last hope." Yoda replied, as the scene faded to black, "No, there is another." Obviously he meant Leia. Probably once Lucas and all decided to make Vader Luke's father, they came up with another twist to be revealed later. At the time, I figured it was the strength of Luke's power over the force that allowed him to contact Leia, particularly as reaching out to the Obi-Wan force ghost wasn't working at all.
Yes there was that part too, when Yoda alludes to there being "another". And you're right, Luke could have simply used the power of the Force to send a help message to Leia, but I think that Leia's dormant Force powers, enabled her to receive that message easier than someone who wouldn't have had them.
Left field question here: Is Yoda's line about "There is another?" original to the film, or was it one of Lucas's later add-ons? I don't remember it from my younger viewings, but as I was quite young, I may have just missed it.
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It was in the original Empire Strikes Back.
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It was in the original Empire Strikes Back.
Perfect. Then they were definitely letting us know.